Naruto 619: Super Early Edition

[Eye-of-God]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

Killer bee is not a badass. Neither is the third hokage. Neither is Naruto, even in his current form. Being a badass is more than just being powerful. It has to do with personality as well. Madara is a badass. Itachi was a badass before he was edo tensei'd, now he's lame. Orochimaru, borderline badass. Zabuza? badass.

Jiraiya, borderline badass, he has the power, but his personality is iffy.
Hashirama? not so much. Tobirama is way more badass than he is just from what we saw last chapter based on attitude alone.

Have to extremely disagree with on the Itachi part he remained cool calm and collected when going against an admirable foe in Nagato and was key in that victory. Although the way he dealt with Kabuto wasn't so imaginative but that I say was the bad logic of Izanami.

And Oro is just plain creepy IMO always felt that way, also who has he killed.
Hiruzen is atleast borderline he did got against 2 Kages and fought with true skill considering he was well out of his prime

[Sai'ix Renkai]

Originally Posted by Eye-of-God

And Oro is just plain creepy IMO always felt that way, also who has he killed.

4th Kazekage, technically Genyumaru, all the other failed experiments from Yamato's pool. Just Saiyan...

[killerkimimaro]

Originally Posted by Eye-of-God

Have to extremely disagree with on the Itachi part he remained cool calm and collected when going against an admirable foe in Nagato and was key in that victory. Although the way he dealt with Kabuto wasn't so imaginative but that I say was the bad logic of Izanami.

And Oro is just plain creepy IMO always felt that way, also who has he killed.
Hiruzen is atleast borderline he did got against 2 Kages and fought with true skill considering he was well out of his prime

he has killed all the ones lissted above and itachi

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by killerkimimaro

he has killed all the ones lissted above and itachi

Orochimaru never killed itachi. I don't know what manga you've been reading.

Originally Posted by Eye-of-God

Have to extremely disagree with on the Itachi part he remained cool calm and collected when going against an admirable foe in Nagato and was key in that victory. Although the way he dealt with Kabuto wasn't so imaginative but that I say was the bad logic of Izanami.

And Oro is just plain creepy IMO always felt that way, also who has he killed.
Hiruzen is atleast borderline he did got against 2 Kages and fought with true skill considering he was well out of his prime

Whether or not you kill anybody doesn't determine whether or not you are a badass. From what we have seen of orochimaru's fighting ability, that's enough, with his personality, to at least make him moderately badass.

Also yes, in hindsight, hiruzen is more badass than quite a few, perhaps I should not have had him with that list. (although I am relatively certain that orochimaru was controlling the actions of the kage, much like kabuto was controlling zabuza, he even went so far as to eliminate their personality, like kabuto recently did. Otherwise I believe the kage would have won that fight.)

The reason I don't consider itachi badass anymore is because he wasn't even remotely as cool of a character as he was before being edo tensei'd. After he got ressurected he got way lamer. Again, fighting capability is not the only factor in badassery.

[Chidori]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

Orochimaru never killed itachi. I don't know what manga you've been reading.



Whether or not you kill anybody doesn't determine whether or not you are a badass. From what we have seen of orochimaru's fighting ability, that's enough, with his personality, to at least make him moderately badass.

Also yes, in hindsight, hiruzen is more badass than quite a few, perhaps I should not have had him with that list. (although I am relatively certain that orochimaru was controlling the actions of the kage, much like kabuto was controlling zabuza, he even went so far as to eliminate their personality, like kabuto recently did. Otherwise I believe the kage would have won that fight.)

The reason I don't consider itachi badass anymore is because he wasn't even remotely as cool of a character as he was before being edo tensei'd. After he got ressurected he got way lamer. Again, fighting capability is not the only factor in badassery.

Your definition of things changes every five minutes. Go puff on some peters.

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by Chidori

Your definition of things changes every five minutes. Go puff on some peters.

how did you get to that conclusion? I haven't changed my definition of badass even once.

[Chidori]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

how did you get to that conclusion? I haven't changed my definition of badass even once.

Read the wheat B!TCH

You don't know how to be objective... "But guys, you can ONLY be a badass if you act kewl ALL the time... like Fonzie!!!!"

AAAYYYYYYYYYYYY

[Eye-of-God]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

Whether or not you kill anybody doesn't determine whether or not you are a badass. From what we have seen of orochimaru's fighting ability, that's enough, with his personality, to at least make him moderately badass.

Also yes, in hindsight, hiruzen is more badass than quite a few, perhaps I should not have had him with that list. (although I am relatively certain that orochimaru was controlling the actions of the kage, much like kabuto was controlling zabuza, he even went so far as to eliminate their personality, like kabuto recently did. Otherwise I believe the kage would have won that fight.)

The reason I don't consider itachi badass anymore is because he wasn't even remotely as cool of a character as he was before being edo tensei'd. After he got ressurected he got way lamer. Again, fighting capability is not the only factor in badassery.

Okay let me rephrase what significant thing has Oro done lets go back. Versus Hiruzen just was plain creepy and had to rely on forbidden jutsu to give him an unfair advantage versus an old geezer how BA, versus Jirayai and Tsunade argueably depended more on Kabuto's abilities more than his own, versus Naruto in 4 tails he holds his own against a rabid beast with no logical thinking not that much of a challenged, and then he ultimately gets nearly eliminated by the Sasuke. the only thing I respect him for is him being able to survive through others curse mark.

Overall he's an Overrated over-talked about ninja who abducts children and if anyone considers that to be marginally BA then I guess we have a total different perception of what BA means.

Explain the bold just dont see much of any differance between the him being alive and edo'd.

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by Eye-of-God

Okay let me rephrase what significant thing has Oro done lets go back. Versus Hiruzen just was plain creepy and had to rely on forbidden jutsu to give him an unfair advantage versus an old geezer how BA, versus Jirayai and Tsunade argueably depended more on Kabuto's abilities more than his own, versus Naruto in 4 tails he holds his own against a rabid beast with no logical thinking not that much of a challenged, and then he ultimately gets nearly eliminated by the Sasuke. the only thing I respect him for is him being able to survive through others curse mark.

Overall he's an Overrated over-talked about ninja who abducts children and if anyone considers that to be marginally BA then I guess we have a total different perception of what BA means.

Explain the bold just dont see much of any differance between the him being alive and edo'd.

The edo tensei comment was about itachi, not orochimaru so those are two different things. The reason I don't like itachi after he came back was because he acted in a different way than when he was alive. I much prefer the 'dark hero' itachi. That itachi was a badass. After he came back, there was more "revealed" about him i guess you could say, and it weakens the appeal of his character. his personality was just a little too cheesy after he was brought back. That's why I revoke his "badass" card.

As for orochimaru, A: He has the ability to use edo tensei, one of the most powerful techniques every created (call it an "unfair advantage" if you want, but that has nothing to do with anything. hell, the 2nd hokage was the first one who planned on using it, he invented it for goodness sake.) And while power alone is not badassery, it is PART of badassery, so there is that.

Also, "unfair" is completely irrelevant to any kind of combat. That's like saying that sasuke had an unfair advantage against gaara during the chunin exams because he had lightning chakra, which goes through sand. It's just how it is. Madara's immortality isn't fair either, but it's part of what makes him a badass. He can't die. ever.

Secondly, he is known to be a master of many kinds of jutsu, much like kakashi, except he didn't have to copy them with sharingan, he learned them the old fashion way, the same way sarutobi did.

Third, sasuke attacked him while he was weak and sick. Had orochimaru been at full strength sasuke would have had his *** handed to him. You want to talk about "unfair advantages", then you can't ignore that one.

4th, Orochimaru came away completely unhurt from a battle against an opponent that jiraiya nearly got killed by. One of the only times he was almost killed. one of the only 2 times. That is not an "easy" opponent. If jiraiya is a badass, orochimaru is easily moderately so.

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by Chidori

Read the wheat B!TCH

You don't know how to be objective... "But guys, you can ONLY be a badass if you act kewl ALL the time... like Fonzie!!!!"

AAAYYYYYYYYYYYY

you don't have to be badass all the time, you just have to not be a dumbass. There is a difference. also, I'm pretty sure the word you are looking for is "subjective" not "objective", as opinions are subjective, and that is entirely what this discussion is about, my opinion of who is and isn't a badass, and why.