About Earth

[Paper]

So, I know it's not the meta, nor is it a widely used deck, but I think there is one change that needs to be made. A few sets ago, Training in the Moonlight was put back to two from the previous restriction of one. This was most likely done due to the true lack of missions for Earth after rotation came into effect and to give the dying deck a little more edge in the format. Well now, Earth has more than enough missions and draw power in the format. I play Earth (among many other decks) and I feel that the Earth deck of mine is the most powerful of them all in terms of consistency and sustainability through to late game with power cards like Chiriku, Yamato, and First Hokage [Supremacy].

With newer sets adding more and more missions to the pool, Earth isn't in desperate need for missions anymore. So I'd like to suggest/discuss the possibility to re-initiate the restriction of Training in the Moonlight to one. Early game, more than one of this card before turn 4 almost always ruins your opponent's curve and ultimately, game. On and after turn 5, Yamato recycles this card every turn for a "Discard 1, draw 2" effect EVERY TURN. The card was fine at one when the deck had more options in the mission slot and the increase to two wasn't needed at all.

I'm not crying for a restriction or ban on this card at all. Look at my posts, I don't cry out for bans and restrictions (I usually counter-argue those people because those complaints get hella annoying). I'm just trying to get a discussion going on in the GENERAL DISCUSSION Forum.

I know Earth isn't the real heavy-hitter this format but with cards like EotS and Chidori being looked at, the meta will definitely shift with this upcoming Rogue List and if Training isn't shot back down to one, I fear that the deck will become the new meta and pretty hard to counter. While I'm on this, to address the "We're supposed to get mission negation soon" argument, go ahead and negate my Training. Too bad in a couple turns, I'll just destroy your Chakra and Discard with Clear Sky (another OP card that, in my opinion, needs some looking at due to what it does to destroy most decks). Negating Training is just gonna leave my opponent wide open for my Clear Sky.

With Invasion's Shiho and, if you use it, Decoding the Message, you get great, consistent draw power which will get you closer to getting that Training and destroying the opponent's curve.

I know that Earth also has Mind Transfer and many think that it should be looked at as well but if you think about it, what else do they have in the jutsu slot? Lemme rephrase that, what else do they have in the jutsu slot that's USEFUL offensively? Again, this isn't a complaint thread, let's have a discussion people.

inb4getbetter
inb4earthsucks
inb4opisa***got

[Tagrineth]

I have to agree. Training isn't really needed at 2 and can cause seriously bullcrap blowouts when hit on 2 and 3.

[Owwruiphantom]

I too am an earth player however I do not feel it should be restricted to 1 just yet.
Earth has yet to prove that if effectively ruins curve due to that one cards consistently. I've used it plenty of times and have taken nothing from my opponent that they really need in order to win the game or change the tides of the game. Sure a well timed one with human path can be devastating. I just can't say I feel the same way about the card.

[Bum-Steer]

I believe that this card isn't powerful enough to be reduced back to one. earth decks actualy need this card to be unlimited completely. The other colors have cards that can stabalize them or be rather unaffected by training in the moonlight. water/lightning have anko's memory, fire can search out their entire curve, and wind draws the most cards from their missions.

if anything, we need to remove cards from the limited and banned lists.

[yodaz]

Originally Posted by Paper

So I'd like to suggest/discuss the possibility to re-initiate the restriction of Training in the Moonlight to one.

I'm not crying for a restriction or ban on this card at all.

So, are you saying you think the card should be restricted or aren't you?

Lot of cards are good. Training in the moonlight is one of them. If you asked water players if they would rather be able to run training in the moonlight or monster research (aka, if they could hypothetically have either monster research or training being water, but not both), which do you think they would choose?

My guess: monster research.

A good card does not mean a broken card. It does not mean that something needs to happen to it. It probably means that you can make a good deck with it. A deck that could seem so good it might be broken because you win so much with it. Until you play another good deck, and then your deck no longer seems broken. This is why any restrictions/bans should wait until AFTER they've been shone to be broken at sjc's.

Obviously not all cards are this complicated. Anbu is one example of such a card. Training in the moonlight, however, is not anbu.


Restricting and banning aside, you said earth has a lot of draw. I think earth is one of the few (I actually can't think of another atm) elements right now that does not have a t2, draw 2 mission of some sort (not counting training, since you are talking about restricting it). I would also argue that out of all the elements right now, earth has the second to least amount of draw/cycling power, the lowest being void, and even that's questionable. I'm not saying that earth has no draw. It does have some, some of which have a lot of potential, and training is a great card. But it certainly does not have a lot of draw.

Even if it did, training in and of itself is not a problematic card. It may be a problematic card when there is more hand discard and that deck is more viable. But that is something that we would probably need an sjc to show.

You also mention that earth does not have a lot of jutsu's. Almost always (well, really, always) broken decks have multiple things that are going for them, and a few things that push them over the top. The fact that earth is so limited right now in terms of jutsu's should go to show that the deck is far from being a problem. Honestly, I think I would be hard pressed to point out any card or deck I could see with certainty is even close to being a problem like that: something that you have to play, or build your deck to play against, or you will lose. To be clear, people SHOULD build their decks with the idea of beating other competitive decks. However, in a healthy format that in and of itself does not mean a deck is broken, since there should be (and currently are) multiple competitive decks and varients.

[allanime01]

I headed right back to my lovely earth deck when set 22 came along. It looked amazing and it has turned out to be just that. Set 23 dropping only helped it out. That being said and staying neutral I don't see that much issue with training. Even with as much damage as I do, most decks I face are recycle and get back pros. I may drop a card in their hand, but they'll get it right back next turn, essentially turning it into a draw 2 for me.
Which speaking of, I rarely get to drop training on turn. it's usually not till 4 or so that I can maneuver my opponents hand lower then mine. Maybe thats just me, but honestly I think Training is fine where it is.

[Senshi]

Originally Posted by yodaz

So, are you saying you think the card should be restricted or aren't you?

Lot of cards are good. Training in the moonlight is one of them. If you asked water players if they would rather be able to run training in the moonlight or monster research (aka, if they could hypothetically have either monster research or training being water, but not both), which do you think they would choose?

My guess: monster research.

Are you ****ting me. I'd take training over monster research any day of the week! monster research is usually 2 for 2. Training is 2 for 2 minus one card to my opponents hand! That's way better. Its like 2 for 3 on turn 2.

[allanime01]

Originally Posted by Senshi

Are you ****ting me. I'd take training over monster research any day of the week! monster research is usually 2 for 2. Training is 2 for 2 minus one card to my opponents hand! That's way better. Its like 2 for 3 on turn 2.

truefax. Plus, training allows me immediate draw, monster puts what im getting in the hands of my opponent, something I avoid whenever possible.

[WizKid]

Originally Posted by Senshi

Are you ****ting me. I'd take training over monster research any day of the week! monster research is usually 2 for 2. Training is 2 for 2 minus one card to my opponents hand! That's way better. Its like 2 for 3 on turn 2.

Exactly...I dont understand how he could say, giving your opponent the choice of the cards you get, and seeing them, over plucking one from hand and possibly drawing two.

Yes, Research is absolute, but more than likely training will go off without a hitch in an earth deck.

[Hinata_The_Filler_Goddess]

Originally Posted by WizKid

in an earth deck.

Thats his point.



Ofcourse, I still agree, i'd rather have training. >_>