New England Organized Play Thread 2.0

[Shino'sDad]

Originally Posted by pyrot53

If you hit 3 revitalize cards and 2 non revitalize cards your yamato goes back to your hand and you can activate the effect again. I think thats what he means but because hes really really dumb he probably didnt know how to explain it.

Which is still incorrect, unfortunately.

Yamato resolves fully. The only conditional part of his effect is the draw 1.
Cost: Reveal him from your hand.

Effect:
1. Discard top 5 of Deck.
Then
2. Check to see if 3 Earth cards hit the discard pile, if so, draw 1.
Then
3. Discard him.

It is Not:

Effect:
1. Discard the top 5 of Deck.
Then
2. Check to see if 3 Earth cards hit the discard pile, if so, draw 1, then discard him.

[pyrot53]

Originally Posted by Shino'sDad

Which is still incorrect, unfortunately.

Yamato resolves fully. The only conditional part of his effect is the draw 1.
Cost: Reveal him from your hand.

Effect:
1. Discard top 5 of Deck.
Then
2. Check to see if 3 Earth cards hit the discard pile, if so, draw 1.
Then
3. Discard him.

It is Not:

Effect:
1. Discard the top 5 of Deck.
Then
2. Check to see if 3 Earth cards hit the discard pile, if so, draw 1, then discard him.

Thats the way Justin ruled it. The only cost is reveal if it doesnt fill the requirements of the milling 3 earth (revitalize doesnt count) his effect fails and you put him back to your hand.

[kyuubi rasengan]

Originally Posted by pyrot53

Thats the way Justin ruled it. The only cost is reveal if it doesnt fill the requirements of the milling 3 earth (revitalize doesnt count) his effect fails and you put him back to your hand.

If we played according to every ruling Justin made what kinda game would this be?...oh wait

[Shino'sDad]

Originally Posted by pyrot53

Thats the way Justin ruled it. The only cost is reveal if it doesnt fill the requirements of the milling 3 earth (revitalize doesnt count) his effect fails and you put him back to your hand.

But this is wrong, and he never ruled it that way. In fact, he specifically ruled it contrary to what you're saying.

Post the ruling he said this, and I'll post the two rulings he said the opposite:

Here's One

Another One

[grasshat]

Originally Posted by Shino'sDad

Revitalize isn't a triggered ability, it's a replacement effect. That's why they never touch the discard. If it were triggered, the effect would go on the chain. Also, Yamato would never get stuck in any sort of loop.
A revitalize card still is considered "discarded" for the purpose of "Discard the top 5 cards", it isn't a locked loop like Take it Again and Here Comes the Second Test Proctor originally was before it was fixed, if that's what you guys are implying.

revitalized is triggered by a card being sent to the discard pile, then is replaced by the revitalize effect itself (which still activates and resolves, even if it's mid chain). what I mean is you can't choose to revitalize it just happens upon a discard trigger. I agree with you that's there's no way it can be locked in a loop, and I don't get why anybody thought that.

and if yamato doesn't get nagated somehow upon revealing there's no way he goes back to hand. bottom line.

[WizKid]

Originally Posted by grasshat

revitalized is triggered by a card being sent to the discard pile, then is replaced by the revitalize effect itself (which still activates and resolves, even if it's mid chain). what I mean is you can't choose to revitalize it just happens upon a discard trigger. I agree with you that's there's no way it can be locked in a loop, and I don't get why anybody thought that.

and if yamato doesn't get nagated somehow upon revealing there's no way he goes back to hand. bottom line.

I think, it is a replacement effect still. Not trigger. Revitalize seems to be more of something that checks to see if a card was discarded. Then if it has an effect, that effect occurs because of the replacement effect. The effects use the chain, but revitalize itself doesn't.

[pyrot53]

Originally Posted by Shino'sDad

But this is wrong, and he never ruled it that way. In fact, he specifically ruled it contrary to what you're saying.

Post the ruling he said this, and I'll post the two rulings he said the opposite:

Here's One

Another One

I took his "negated" as a broad term for his effect not fulfilling a condition. I am delighted to here he fails upon hitting 3 revitalize.

[grasshat]

Originally Posted by WizKid

I think, it is a replacement effect still. Not trigger. Revitalize seems to be more of something that checks to see if a card was discarded. Then if it has an effect, that effect occurs because of the replacement effect. The effects use the chain, but revitalize itself doesn't.

replacement effects still need a source for activation, since revitalize is just a keyword. any effect that activates upon a specific condition set by the game is still a trigger, whether or not it's a replacement. But in the case of revitalize it doesn't really matter since replacements can resolve mid chain. It's just a technicality in case there are ever effects that say "when a triggered effect is activated do "X" "

It's just scary since Bandai has a hard time keeping track of ruling that use the regular chain, if they dig too far into this you're going to start having mini chains within resolving effects... and well....we all know how naruto attunement went :/

[grasshat]

Originally Posted by pyrot53

I took his "negated" as a broad term for his effect not fulfilling a condition. I am delighted to here he fails upon hitting 3 revitalize.

in your defense he did basically say that yamato goes back to the hand before I had him clarify his ruling, it could have been easily read as how you took it. I made it a point for him to seperate the cost and the effect.

[WizKid]

Originally Posted by grasshat

replacement effects still need a source for activation, since revitalize is just a keyword. any effect that activates upon a specific condition set by the game is still a trigger, whether or not it's a replacement. But in the case of revitalize it doesn't really matter since replacements can resolve mid chain. It's just a technicality in case there are ever effects that say "when a triggered effect is activated do "X" "

It's just scary since Bandai has a hard time keeping track of ruling that use the regular chain, if they dig too far into this you're going to start having mini chains within resolving effects... and well....we all know how naruto attunement went :/

I think you should just not say it resolves mid chain.

Because the replacement effect can't be chained to itself. Just a card with an effect that resolves by revitalize.

But that's is just from my prior experience with other CCG's. I mean i'm sure your going by past Naruto terms but I just don't think saying it resolves mid chain is the right way because

And I only say that because if a Ninja effect like Naruto Cop is discarding the cards, his effect is still in play, the revitalize effect happens regardless, and the effects from revitalize go on a chain afterword.

Not saying your wrong, I just don't see the term "resolve mid-chain" helping clarify.