Adding to the Conversation: Giant Ninja Toad

[OneWingedAngel]

Originally Posted by JDragon

(Separate thread as it does not regard the current Rogue List)

I feel that this card should be unrestricted to 1 (or more) in the next Rogue List. Currently the power level of a restricted to 1 card has been set to a jutsu useable in any deck that can bounce or discard any two ninjas.

Giant Ninja Toad only has one element it can realistically be played in, and can only remove from play a ninja with entrance cost 3 or less (making it poorly positioned against Wind). Additionally, the tempo advantage an early Summoning Jutsu into GNT is also poorly positioned against the BR Flip Earth deck. Thus GNT is nowhere near the power level of banned card, nor is it even close to the power level of a restricted to 1 card as set by Bandai. Therefore it should be a candidate for unrestriction for the next Rogue List.

There are also a multitude of other cards that meet this criteria. For example, a very similar card exists in Furious Current Jutsu. This is also a card that can only be realistically played in one element, and has a power level nowhere near the requirements set by Bandai. Like GNT, it is very poorly positioned against both Wind and Earth due to its reliance on entrance cost (as well as the tempo advantage it provides). Therefore it should be a candidate for complete unrestriction as well.

One more card very similar to these two is Sealing the Evil. I would argue that this card is lesser in power level compared to the bar set by Bandai (snipe two ninjas vs one ninja, similar requirements, any element vs one element). This card should also be a candidate for unrestriction.

Thoughts?

Absolutely not on any of these. I'm a loyal toad player and still think that GNT should just stay gone. Although, GNT isn't a broken card at all, but with Summoning Jutsu around GNT can't be allowed in the format.

Pretty much all three cards mentioned are snipe jutsu, even GNT because of Summoning. At first I thought you were being sarcastic because Pump getting put back at one, but your tone seems somewhat serious.

The problem with all of the cards mention is that, even at one, can randomly win you the game within the first 3 turns of the game. The same reason why Pump should be flat out banned instead of at one is the same reason why these cards are banned now. The only reason Pump was put at one is because it has only been legal for about 2 months and this will give more players time to use it. I would expect Pump to be banned by Gencon, otherwise the testers are just complete idiots.

[WizKid]

Mike, his point in making the thread, is that those cards would allow a psuedo balance.

We know why they probably did it. But if your gonna allow it, every element should have something along its power level.

[spiralblitz]

Ok GNT is broken.

wasn't there a combo around the time, that bottom decked every ninja your opponent had that was turn 5 or lower. that could start on turn 0.

With Barrier prep around I think that combo is even more devastating.

So don't even consider GNT.

Broke doesn't fix Broke.

[Grits_N_Gravy]

Originally Posted by JDragon

(Separate thread as it does not regard the current Rogue List)

I feel that this card should be unrestricted to 1 (or more) in the next Rogue List. Currently the power level of a restricted to 1 card has been set to a jutsu useable in any deck that can bounce or discard any two ninjas.

Giant Ninja Toad only has one element it can realistically be played in, and can only remove from play a ninja with entrance cost 3 or less (making it poorly positioned against Wind). Additionally, the tempo advantage an early Summoning Jutsu into GNT is also poorly positioned against the BR Flip Earth deck. Thus GNT is nowhere near the power level of banned card, nor is it even close to the power level of a restricted to 1 card as set by Bandai. Therefore it should be a candidate for unrestriction for the next Rogue List.

There are also a multitude of other cards that meet this criteria. For example, a very similar card exists in Furious Current Jutsu. This is also a card that can only be realistically played in one element, and has a power level nowhere near the requirements set by Bandai. Like GNT, it is very poorly positioned against both Wind and Earth due to its reliance on entrance cost (as well as the tempo advantage it provides). Therefore it should be a candidate for complete unrestriction as well.

One more card very similar to these two is Sealing the Evil. I would argue that this card is lesser in power level compared to the bar set by Bandai (snipe two ninjas vs one ninja, similar requirements, any element vs one element). This card should also be a candidate for unrestriction.

Thoughts?

All I can say is................................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........................JDragon #1
Josh #1
Josh Lu #1
Joshua Lu #1
Elite #1

[shikamaru pwns anyone]

You stayed on topic in mine ill do the same.

Id say possibly it could come off to 1. But then summoning would have to be a restrict. I do think that something could happen to the whole combo so that it could still be done. It is something that should be able to happen.

I'd love for sealing to come off being an earth player. I never saw a problem with it at 1, being that Yamato is a 1 and First is a 2. And those are the only ones that really matter cause they have mastery. Id be ok if it went back to 1.

[HaKuYoU]

Originally Posted by JDragon

(Separate thread as it does not regard the current Rogue List)

I feel that this card should be unrestricted to 1 (or more) in the next Rogue List. Currently the power level of a restricted to 1 card has been set to a jutsu useable in any deck that can bounce or discard any two ninjas.

Giant Ninja Toad only has one element it can realistically be played in, and can only remove from play a ninja with entrance cost 3 or less (making it poorly positioned against Wind). Additionally, the tempo advantage an early Summoning Jutsu into GNT is also poorly positioned against the BR Flip Earth deck. Thus GNT is nowhere near the power level of banned card, nor is it even close to the power level of a restricted to 1 card as set by Bandai. Therefore it should be a candidate for unrestriction for the next Rogue List.

There are also a multitude of other cards that meet this criteria. For example, a very similar card exists in Furious Current Jutsu. This is also a card that can only be realistically played in one element, and has a power level nowhere near the requirements set by Bandai. Like GNT, it is very poorly positioned against both Wind and Earth due to its reliance on entrance cost (as well as the tempo advantage it provides). Therefore it should be a candidate for complete unrestriction as well.

One more card very similar to these two is Sealing the Evil. I would argue that this card is lesser in power level compared to the bar set by Bandai (snipe two ninjas vs one ninja, similar requirements, any element vs one element). This card should also be a candidate for unrestriction.

Thoughts?

icwutudidthere :-p

[Shodaime]

GNT: Card itself isn't busted, but the combo's that run with are unhealthy for the game. Turn kichi shouldn't have been reprinted, and barrier prep and the new lightning mission( though i will admit this is just sacking) can abuse this too much. I feel if problem cards in lightning were hit, namely Summoning jutsu, GNT would have been fine.

Furious Current: I have been wanting this back for quite some time now. The problem with this card is that if I open up furious + make out tactics, you probably aren't going to win the game. Although she isn't valid, FOTS karin makes game lock with this easy. I built a deck that used this as a back up plan. Admittedly, this isn't going to happen 100% of the time, since furious isn't searchable and if you don't hit early game, it isn't as devastating, but I would suggest FOTS Karin ( who seems like a fairer card than a jutsu) be put to one. As a water player, I really would like to see furious return, (it shouldn't have left the format it did) but I know it probably wouldn't happen.

Sealing the Evil: Next set we have a turn 3 tree user with non-unique. No thanks on this coming back 2. Earth is currently the strongest the element in terms of the strength of its themes, and although I wouldn't mind the card if it was in something like fire, earth hasn't had anything from its main theme really hit. They don't need this card.

[pyroboy001]

Originally Posted by Shodaime

GNT: Card itself isn't busted, but the combo's that run with are unhealthy for the game. Turn kichi shouldn't have been reprinted, and barrier prep and the new lightning mission( though i will admit this is just sacking) can abuse this too much. I feel if problem cards in lightning were hit, namely Summoning jutsu, GNT would have been fine.

Furious Current: I have been wanting this back for quite some time now. The problem with this card is that if I open up furious + make out tactics, you probably aren't going to win the game. Although she isn't valid, FOTS karin makes game lock with this easy. I built a deck that used this as a back up plan. Admittedly, this isn't going to happen 100% of the time, since furious isn't searchable and if you don't hit early game, it isn't as devastating, but I would suggest FOTS Karin ( who seems like a fairer card than a jutsu) be put to one. As a water player, I really would like to see furious return, (it shouldn't have left the format it did) but I know it probably wouldn't happen.

Sealing the Evil: Next set we have a turn 3 tree user with non-unique. No thanks on this coming back 2. Earth is currently the strongest the element in terms of the strength of its themes, and although I wouldn't mind the card if it was in something like fire, earth hasn't had anything from its main theme really hit. They don't need this card.

But what about moonlight?

[Tagrineth]

Er... you say GNT wasn't broken because it's "poorly positioned" against Earth, and yet the reason he was rogued and then 0'd is because he beat everything too easily, including Earth.

Well played, sir. Well played.

[Tsu Kiyo Me]

I agree with these suggestions. Clearly Hydro Pump is the standard for cards that should be set to 1 instead of 0. Other cards set to 0 clearly aren't as powerful as this card so they should be unrestricted as long as Pump is at 1.

Also, I'd like to motion that we put Sasuke Uchiha (State 2) back at 1 because it only really benefits one element and can't play any really powerful jutsu effects. Please consider unbanning this card as long as Hydro Pump is at 1.