Kakashi Cup: Round 2 Uzumaki Naruto vs. Hyuuga Neji

[hahonryuu]

Originally Posted by Sharingan_Warrior5693

No, if you remember back the longer Naruto used the one tail, he started to take damage. He even lost the use of his left arm while in that state. Also, you guys are forgetting that Naruto can only use the tails once he getting extreme emotional or physical damage, and I'm not sure if Neji can even inflict that much damage. We saw the Neji killed Kidomaru with one shot, and we have seen Hiashi kill a guy in one shot. Who is to say Neji wouldn't do that from the very start?

he killed kido in one shot? i recall him hitting him twice. 66 times if you count the 64 palms kido used that gold armor on. >_>

Originally Posted by Nejifan

^^this. Do we have stats for hiashi? I would put this neji on par with him. In terms of technique with gentle fist I'd actually put him ABOVE hiashi, since as far as we know air palm is a strictly neji move.

yes we have hiashi stats, and yes the two are comparable. though considering hiashi's taijutsu is higher im gonna have to say that hiashi's gentlefist is probably still better.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

1: thank you. I told him he was limited to 1 tail, but he just wouldn't listen

eh, what are ya gonna do. I had a similar problem the first gaara fight when people insisted he could create and use his own sand

[quote=Nejifan;1196793]2. (really this should be 1 chronologically, but whatever) I don't believe naruto can access/turn off the 1 tail at will. I agree with sharinganwarrior that naruto doesn't have enough mastery of the tails to say 'go 1 tail' and have it happen. it has to be triggered. Once it does enough damage, he can't even fight neji except with the chakra limbs, which aren't enough to kill him. once naruto is incapable of rasengan, fight is over.[quote=Nejifan;1196793]

technically all he really does is go to the fox and go "ok, its time to pay your rent". don't see why he can't...up the rental price for staying inside him. he went to him the first time he got a barely noticeable amount <no glowing, no transformation, etc>. the very next time he uses it he was all glowy. then 2 times from then he got fangs and claws. then when he was passed out the fox was like "ok ok, here ya go. don't say i never gave you anything -_-"

I mean whats to stop him from going "gimme all you got/can"...which in this case would be enough to go 1 tail. I doubt getting to one tail would be much of a problem. even if he can only get fangs and claws, that would basically still nullify gentlefist since he would heal at a stupid rate and the fox laughs at closing chakra points...eventually the fight would get heated and the fox would be like "dang it, here stupid ungrateful little..."

Originally Posted by Nejifan

3. I just meant that he still wasn't that fast. wow, congrats, he is now the speed neji was during the chunin exams.....yippeee....-_-

haha you make it sound like he's slow. thats also the same speed as sasuke in the exams, and apparently, something you like bringing up, sasuke wasn't all that much slower than lee ^_~. neji is faster no doubt, i never said he wasn't. you simply said naruto didn't get faster, i corrected you. don't act like im saying naruto is some sort of speed god

Originally Posted by Nejifan

4. uh, yeah actually he can. if there is only 1 naruto using kyuubi chakra, pretty sure he can figure it out. If none of them are using it, it doesn't matter anyway, since neji didn't even have to put effort into picking apart naruto's clones in the chunin exams, and this neji has increased ****her than naruto has.

oh that's what you meant. no that's not how it works. if naruto is going kyuubi then, basically, he can't use clones anymore till all the kyuubi chakra is gone. sot here can't be a naruto wrapped in red chakra and a dozen normal naruto's in existence at the same time

Originally Posted by Nejifan

5. I call BS and point to my rock lee example. sasuke with 2 tomoe couldn't keep track of lee's movement when he had the weights ON. and with the weights on he is proven to be less than 3 in speed since he can't outrun the sand. so how exactly was he able to keep track of haku when haku has the speed that lee does with weights off. hmm? explain that one.

he could keep track of lee's movements. his body simply wasn't fast enough to keep up. they never said he couldn't see lee. "even if you can see my movements, your body does not have the speed to react"

happy? of course not cause i proved your BS call to be full of BS

Originally Posted by Nejifan

6. I didn't say it was a good strategy, but it CAN be done. outlast =/= have more chakra. (see #2)

yeah, i guess if he has years to fight naruto and could last all those years. i mean the clone usage, which is the main way he exhausts his chakra in most fights, naruto has in this fight is severely limited. it has a number on it and it can't be done when using kyuubi.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

7. then you assumed incorrectly. chidori is not done by force of will, and neither is rasengan.

so they just magically appear do they? i mean even if it is as you say, then how are they controlling the chakra used to make chidorigan in the first place? are they using even more chakra to control that chakra? and then more chakra to control that chakra?

when has it ever said/implied that it uses up chakra to control chakra? i mean yeah the chakra you are controlling gets expended, but its never said/implied that any extra chakra was taken up.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

if you just had to will your chakra to spin then rasengan wouldn't be hard to learn now would it? you have to actually feel the chakra in your body and manipulate it by force, not by will. same concept with energy in dbz.

for starters, even in DBZ nothing about using up energy to control it was said. secondly its rather...iffy to really say how energy worked in dbz. i mean apparently to use kamehameha all you need to do is hold your hands in a certain way and say "kamehameha!" considering that's basically all goku did the first time we saw him do it on fire mountain >_>. but of course goku IS hella pro haha. also, seems like they do an awful lot of concentrating when doing anything...worth doing with energy. seems like some force of will to me

Originally Posted by Nejifan

8.lrn2read lol we were talking about being faster than sasuke, not naruto. -_-

im not sure what you mean. with your lame method of quoting its rather hard to tell what you are responding to

Originally Posted by Nejifan

9. knowing that naruto is capable of the cloak is a HUGE factor in strategy. if sasuke had known about that I guarantee you he would have gone state 2 right off the bat and tried to kill naruto as quickly as possible.

he already tried killing naruto as quickly as possible, hence him trying to stab his heart with chidori not very far into the fight. dude turned his gun sideways pretty much right away

speaking of which, why does no one ever try to chidori or rasengan someone in the face? it seems far more efficient haha. they always go for somewhere on the torso XD. i guess it IS a bigger target, but still haha

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by hahonryuu

yes we have hiashi stats, and yes the two are comparable. though considering hiashi's taijutsu is higher im gonna have to say that hiashi's gentlefist is probably still better.

technically all he really does is go to the fox and go "ok, its time to pay your rent". don't see why he can't...up the rental price for staying inside him. he went to him the first time he got a barely noticeable amount <no glowing, no transformation, etc>. the very next time he uses it he was all glowy. then 2 times from then he got fangs and claws. then when he was passed out the fox was like "ok ok, here ya go. don't say i never gave you anything -_-"

I mean whats to stop him from going "gimme all you got/can"...which in this case would be enough to go 1 tail. I doubt getting to one tail would be much of a problem. even if he can only get fangs and claws, that would basically still nullify gentlefist since he would heal at a stupid rate and the fox laughs at closing chakra points...eventually the fight would get heated and the fox would be like "dang it, here stupid ungrateful little..."



haha you make it sound like he's slow. thats also the same speed as sasuke in the exams, and apparently, something you like bringing up, sasuke wasn't all that much slower than lee ^_~. neji is faster no doubt, i never said he wasn't. you simply said naruto didn't get faster, i corrected you. don't act like im saying naruto is some sort of speed god



yeah, i guess if he has years to fight naruto and could last all those years. i mean the clone usage, which is the main way he exhausts his chakra in most fights, naruto has in this fight is severely limited. it has a number on it and it can't be done when using kyuubi.




so they just magically appear do they? i mean even if it is as you say, then how are they controlling the chakra used to make chidorigan in the first place? are they using even more chakra to control that chakra? and then more chakra to control that chakra?

when has it ever said/implied that it uses up chakra to control chakra? i mean yeah the chakra you are controlling gets expended, but its never said/implied that any extra chakra was taken up.




for starters, even in DBZ nothing about using up energy to control it was said. secondly its rather...iffy to really say how energy worked in dbz. i mean apparently to use kamehameha all you need to do is hold your hands in a certain way and say "kamehameha!" considering that's basically all goku did the first time we saw him do it on fire mountain >_>. but of course goku IS hella pro haha. also, seems like they do an awful lot of concentrating when doing anything...worth doing with energy. seems like some force of will to me


he already tried killing naruto as quickly as possible, hence him trying to stab his heart with chidori not very far into the fight. dude turned his gun sideways pretty much right away

speaking of which, why does no one ever try to chidori or rasengan someone in the face? it seems far more efficient haha. they always go for somewhere on the torso XD. i guess it IS a bigger target, but still haha

1: if hiashi really IS better at gentle fist than neji, I want to see a neji+hiashi super beat down in the war lol that would be BEAST!

2: possibly, but we don't know for sure. (as to the bolded)

3: I do consider 3 to be fairly slow (compared to neji :P ). I consider gaara's sand to be 'average' speed and that is roughly 2.5 ish.

4: I say again. outlast =/= have greater chakra pool.

5: 2nd bolded. If you go to create chidori in your hand, and you dispel it, it still consumed chakra to create the chidori. same way with rasengan I would imagine.

6: no, but in DBZ they don't control energy by their will. they have to manipulate the flow with their bodies. Otherwise it wouldnt' have been hard for videl to learn to use energy to fly. chakra control wouldn't even be a factor if people controlled chakra by force of will, as they would just will themselves to stand on water and be able to do it first try. logical deduction says that they dont' control chakra by will. Look at naruto training for rasengan. without even using a jutsu he got low on chakra, because just trying to figure out how to manipulate the chakra drained him. so to answer your question, yes, manipulation does consume chakra.

7: no he didn't, if he had he would have been in state two and naruto WOULD have died. fox or no fox, his head would have been GONE.

[hahonryuu]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

1: if hiashi really IS better at gentle fist than neji, I want to see a neji+hiashi super beat down in the war lol that would be BEAST!

pretty much. assuming that old hyuuga guy is not really in fighting shape anymore, it would basically be the 2 strongest hyuuga versus one another...thats what i call a quick fight. i mean both sides having such a powerful taijutsu taken to the limits. it would be like those times when two, like, samurai or something are facing off

they stare down, practically fighting each other in their head.

they wait...


suddenly without warning, they both rush in

they are now standing opposite where they were before

one staggers

then suddenly the other collapses dead

Originally Posted by Nejifan

2: possibly, but we don't know for sure. (as to the bolded)

you bolded a lot, what part do you mean exactly

Originally Posted by Nejifan

3: I do consider 3 to be fairly slow (compared to neji :P ). I consider gaara's sand to be 'average' speed and that is roughly 2.5 ish.

yet when people see such speed they go 0_0, and say things such as compaing that speed to that of rock lee. seems your standards a tad high lol. but yes, naruto with no fox help cannot hope to stand up to neji...any neji. 12 year old naruto from either databooks 1 or 2 could not stand up to DB1 2 or 3 neji with out the fox. neji is a better fighter and at LEAST as fast/faster <depending on the book>. his vision makes naruto's usual tricks a bit harder to pull off, and even if naruto can get his plan working and overwhelm him...there's rotation

so talking about naruto prefox being less than neji is obvious. we don't need databooks to tell us that, we saw that for our own eyes in the chuunin exams.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

4: I say again. outlast =/= have greater chakra pool.

and i say again...its not going to happen

chakra: not in a million years

damage from 1 tail: it took a little bit just for his left arm to go numb. and even then he was still definitely capable of fighting. the things he's able to do with 1 tail can be quite overwhelming

heck, why not just stay fangs/claws. heals super fast to heal off the internal damage normal gentle fist does. fox laughs at chakra points being closed. he's still very physically capable. the fight would go on and eventually neji would begin to tire while naruto will still be wound free and still have significantly more chakra. a longer fight is definitely in naruto's favor, which is why i say outlasting him is a terrible strategy.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

5: 2nd bolded. If you go to create chidori in your hand, and you dispel it, it still consumed chakra to create the chidori. same way with rasengan I would imagine.

and i agree. when did i say it didnt do that? im saying that controlling the chakra in of itself <moving it around, changing its element, etc> doesn't take up any additional chakra

lets say it takes X amount of chakra to make rasengan. lets say jiraiya has X chakra in his hand right now. him rotating it doesn't require extra chakra. that's what i assumed you were saying.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

6: no, but in DBZ they don't control energy by their will. they have to manipulate the flow with their bodies. Otherwise it wouldnt' have been hard for videl to learn to use energy to fly. chakra control wouldn't even be a factor if people controlled chakra by force of will, as they would just will themselves to stand on water and be able to do it first try. logical deduction says that they dont' control chakra by will. Look at naruto training for rasengan. without even using a jutsu he got low on chakra, because just trying to figure out how to manipulate the chakra drained him. so to answer your question, yes, manipulation does consume chakra.

who says it would be easy? the will power/concentration it takes is obviously not an easy thing to achieve since its NOT easy. why does it being will power driven automatically make it easy? wheres the logic in that?

and i do believe this to be just a misunderstanding. i never denied naruto getting tired when he wasn't yusing the jutsu. i mean he was expelling chakra out of his body. chakra left his body. obviously that made there be less chakra inside the body. thats math >_>

Originally Posted by Nejifan

7: no he didn't, if he had he would have been in state two and naruto WOULD have died. fox or no fox, his head would have been GONE.

yes, yes he did go for a kill. naruto deflected the chidori slightly, making it go through his shoulder instead of his heart. sasuke was going for the kill asap <it was only much later in the fight, on a "whim" that he decided not to kill him>, but naruto stopped him. then after naruto stopped the insta kill, he begins choking him...then naruto went all demon fox on him and a swift kill became pretty much impossible

and like is aid. its an unwritten rule. thou shalt not chidori someone in the face. its like thou shalt not punch or shoot a guy in the nuts rule. just because someone doesn't aim for the face doesn't mean they were going for the kill. there are lots of vital points on the human body <as zabuza so very kindly pointed out in attempt, and succeeds, to scare the crap out of a bunch of 12 year olds haha>

sasuke's gun was sideways the whole time bra

[Sharingan_Warrior5693]

Originally Posted by spiralblitz

if neji seals his chakra points naruto has access to it also it happened at the chunin exam (though I think neji isn't stupid enough to do that again). besides at this point I believe jaraiya has already taught naruto how to access the nine tails chakra.

actually when I was saying there was no limit to tailed beast mode I was speaking chakra wise. at this point naruto could just keep getting chakra as much as he wants cause he isn't using to much at the moment.

There is a difference between Kyubi chakra and One Tailed Mode.

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by hahonryuu

pretty much. assuming that old hyuuga guy is not really in fighting shape anymore, it would basically be the 2 strongest hyuuga versus one another...thats what i call a quick fight. i mean both sides having such a powerful taijutsu taken to the limits. it would be like those times when two, like, samurai or something are facing off

they stare down, practically fighting each other in their head.

they wait...


suddenly without warning, they both rush in

they are now standing opposite where they were before

one staggers

then suddenly the other collapses dead


damage from 1 tail: it took a little bit just for his left arm to go numb. and even then he was still definitely capable of fighting. the things he's able to do with 1 tail can be quite overwhelming

heck, why not just stay fangs/claws. heals super fast to heal off the internal damage normal gentle fist does. fox laughs at chakra points being closed. he's still very physically capable. the fight would go on and eventually neji would begin to tire while naruto will still be wound free and still have significantly more chakra. a longer fight is definitely in naruto's favor, which is why i say outlasting him is a terrible strategy.

and i agree. when did i say it didnt do that? im saying that controlling the chakra in of itself <moving it around, changing its element, etc> doesn't take up any additional chakra

lets say it takes X amount of chakra to make rasengan. lets say jiraiya has X chakra in his hand right now. him rotating it doesn't require extra chakra. that's what i assumed you were saying.



who says it would be easy? the will power/concentration it takes is obviously not an easy thing to achieve since its NOT easy. why does it being will power driven automatically make it easy? wheres the logic in that?

and i do believe this to be just a misunderstanding. i never denied naruto getting tired when he wasn't yusing the jutsu. i mean he was expelling chakra out of his body. chakra left his body. obviously that made there be less chakra inside the body. thats math >_>



yes, yes he did go for a kill. naruto deflected the chidori slightly, making it go through his shoulder instead of his heart. sasuke was going for the kill asap <it was only much later in the fight, on a "whim" that he decided not to kill him>, but naruto stopped him. then after naruto stopped the insta kill, he begins choking him...then naruto went all demon fox on him and a swift kill became pretty much impossible

and like is aid. its an unwritten rule. thou shalt not chidori someone in the face. its like thou shalt not punch or shoot a guy in the nuts rule. just because someone doesn't aim for the face doesn't mean they were going for the kill. there are lots of vital points on the human body <as zabuza so very kindly pointed out in attempt, and succeeds, to scare the crap out of a bunch of 12 year olds haha>

sasuke's gun was sideways the whole time bra

1: first bold. I think you misunderstood me. I want to see neji/hiashi on a team FIGHTING TOGETHER AGAINST THE BAD GUYS. hiashi isn't dead as far as I know. HIZASHI is.

2. 2nd bold (tail strategy) without the 1 tail naruto isn't fast enough to keep up with neji ( I highly doubt it boosts him by 1.5 speed before even using tails. that would make his 1 tail speed above might guy/raikage level since 1 tail is exponentially more powerful). having more chakra doesn't mean you don't get tired physically either. naruto had a buttload of chakra left when he fought gaara and was still tired (after 1k yrs of death explosion thing and all his clones go away). The fox heals wounds, but idk if it suppliments fatigue or not. Besides, what makes you think he can abuse the 9 tails chakra forever. I mean, it turned itself off before he even finished neji during the chunin exams. Even though this naruto has 1 tail capability, that doesn't mean he can use it all the live long day. especially because as he uses it it cuts away at his life force, just like tsunade's seal or susanoo. This naruto doesn't KNOW that he will be healed after the match.

3: as per the chakra thing. if forming chakra into the palm of your hand consumes chakra (see rasengan training) then by default, so does spinning it, because they are both instances of manipulating the flow of the chakra, there isn't any difference.

as for the will power thing, here's the deal. if you manipulate chakra by force of will, then no matter what, if you want the chakra to do something, it obeys your will by default. that's why I said it would be easy. If chakra was controlled by will, then no matter what, as long as you were determined enough, there would be nothing you couldn't do with your chakra. EVERYONE would be able to pour out chakra from their entire body like neji, just by willing it. there is no way around it. if chakra was controlled by will, that WOULD be a possibility, that's a fact. EVEN THE FORCE IN STARWARS ISN'T CONTROLLED BY WILL.


4: last thing. no, sasuke didn't go all out. yes, he did try to kill him, I never denied that. MY point was, that if he had known against the cloak, he would have taken it alot more seriously, he had a chance to still kill naruto after he pierced his shoulder, and he didn't take it because he was arrogant. sasuke could have easily pulled his arm back out, and ran his hand along naruto's neck, even if he didn't do it quickly the chidori would have decapitated him. it doesn't HAVE to be a forward thrust to do damage. a sideswipe would be just as effective at the point of attachment, e.g. a shoulder/knee/neck. had sasuke known about the cloak, he would have BEGUN the fight by going state 2, and chidori'd naruto's head off, either by targeting it originally, or by just piercing naruto's torso, then while naruto is too weak to fight back, cut his head off. just because no one HAS decapitated someone with chidori, doesn't mean it can't be done.

[hahonryuu]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

1: first bold. I think you misunderstood me. I want to see neji/hiashi on a team FIGHTING TOGETHER AGAINST THE BAD GUYS. hiashi isn't dead as far as I know. HIZASHI is.

actually when you posted that i kinda sorta glossed over the "in the war" part haha, my bad

Originally Posted by Nejifan

2. 2nd bold (tail strategy) without the 1 tail naruto isn't fast enough to keep up with neji ( I highly doubt it boosts him by 1.5 speed before even using tails.

i disagree. especially since 2 people with = speed stats are not necessarily exactly equal in speed. if thatw ere true then any increase in speed your training gives you at all would be enough to get a .5 increase...which is obviously not the case since that would mean that rpetty much everyones physyical stats would be 5 >_>. perhaps it puts naruto on the high side of 4 and neji is currently on the low end of 4.5 to where he's little better than a 4. but of course that's more for you. personally i have no problem believing that someone having super powerful demonic chakra running through their <chakra> veins would get ridiculously faster...especially since sharingan <albeit incomplete> wasn't able to track his moves. him being as fast/faster than neji doesn't phase me at all.

I mean im not really saying Neji couldn't keep up with him on some level. I imagine at the chuunin exams that Naruto was faster than Neji, and though Neji had some trouble keeping up, he was still able to fight against him somewhat. so I'm not saying that naruto will be some sort of blur that neji wouldn't have a hope of fighting against

Originally Posted by Nejifan

that would make his 1 tail speed above might guy/raikage level since 1 tail is exponentially more powerful).

1) with guy...not necessarily. and even if it was that would be ungated. gate guy would still be faster.

2) we don't even know raikage's stats. and besides, did that lightning armor thing of his also make him faster?

3) oh NO, you mean a jinchuuriki, which are basically super shinobi, are faster than normal ninja? what is the world coming too. next you will be telling me that the bionic man is faster than me.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

having more chakra doesn't mean you don't get tired physically either. naruto had a buttload of chakra left when he fought gaara and was still tired (after 1k yrs of death explosion thing and all his clones go away).

he did? cuz i remember the exact words "im all out of chakra *huff* *puff* you are too right?". after the gaara fight naruto was drained. and besides, that was against another jinchuuriki. and after gaara blew away naruto's 2k clones, naruto claimed to be, you guessed it, out of chakra <in the above quote, that was after he used up the little bit of chakra kyuubi gave him. he tapped kyuubi twice. once to summon bunta, then again to headbutt gaara>

Originally Posted by Nejifan

The fox heals wounds, but idk if it suppliments fatigue or not. Besides, what makes you think he can abuse the 9 tails chakra forever. I mean, it turned itself off before he even finished neji during the chunin exams.

im gonna go with "it didn't turn off, he just used it up. he didn't really call upon that much...he didn't even transform at all, was just glowing.". he fought against sasuke <seemingly> longer, but was fangs and claws, and as far as we saw was in no danger of leaving kyuubi mode.

[quote=Nejifan;1196922]Even though this naruto has 1 tail capability, that doesn't mean he can use it all the live long day. especially because as he uses it it cuts away at his life force, just like tsunade's seal or susanoo. This naruto doesn't KNOW that he will be healed after the match.

i don't recall it ever saying it cuts his life force. i know that the cloak constantly causes damage to his body <hence arm going numb/4 tails+ mode ripping his skin off> and i recall jiraiya saying that because the high tiers of cloak cause so much damage to his body, which are then later super healed by the foxes chakra when the clock goes away that "this constant cycle of injury followed by accelerated healing weaken his body". i mean i guess by that logic it would indeed kill him eventually, but i don't think it necessarily cuts his life force. i don't think current naruto has any less life energy then 12 year old naruto.

and i don't think him knowing he's going to be healed or not matters. i mean come on, all he really knows about the cloak is that after using it against sasuke for a while, hi arm went numb. safe to say shippuuden naruto knows as much/more <perhaps knowing that it's dangerous to his body>, but it certainly hasn't stopped him. heck the only thing that slowed his reliance on kyuubi was hearing that when he loses control, he had hurt sakura. 1 tail doesn't cause him to lose his mind, and there are no friends to hurt anyway <not counting neji, after all characters have 100% motivation no matter who they are fighting>

Originally Posted by Nejifan

3: as per the chakra thing. if forming chakra into the palm of your hand consumes chakra (see rasengan training) then by default, so does spinning it, because they are both instances of manipulating the flow of the chakra, there isn't any difference.

bring chakra to your palm uses up chakra because the chakra is leaving your body to sit on your palm =/. spinning chakra that is already out of your body should do no such thing

Originally Posted by Nejifan

as for the will power thing, here's the deal. if you manipulate chakra by force of will, then no matter what, if you want the chakra to do something, it obeys your will by default. that's why I said it would be easy. If chakra was controlled by will, then no matter what, as long as you were determined enough, there would be nothing you couldn't do with your chakra. EVERYONE would be able to pour out chakra from their entire body like neji, just by willing it. there is no way around it. if chakra was controlled by will, that WOULD be a possibility, that's a fact. EVEN THE FORCE IN STARWARS ISN'T CONTROLLED BY WILL.

you know, the closest things to examples/proof you can come up with are coming from DBZ and starwars =/

oh man its terrible. i just tried to move my ipod through force of will, but it didn't work. whats the deal? i thought you said that manipulating things through force of will happens easily and obeys me by default?

Originally Posted by Nejifan

4: last thing. no, sasuke didn't go all out.

no, he didn't. he used what he believed was necessary. why use a nuke when a gun works just fine. i knew what you meant i was just screwing with you mostly <partly however was because you were making it sound like...i dunno, like sasuke wasn't going for the win right away when he clearly was. but that was just a small part of it ^_~>

Originally Posted by Nejifan

yes, he did try to
kill him, I never denied that. MY point was, that if he had known against the cloak, he would have taken it alot more seriously

i hear killing your best friend is srsbizniss

Originally Posted by Nejifan

he had a chance to still kill naruto after he pierced his shoulder, and he didn't take it because he was arrogant.

he had a better chance of killing naruto by using a chidori in the face. but no one ever does that. really does bug me >_> i mean whats gonna survive that? hidan? kakuzu? sasori? madara <who didn't really get a chidori in the face, he was just kidding>?

Originally Posted by Nejifan

sasuke could have easily pulled his arm back out, and ran his hand along naruto's neck

naruto could have easily showed up in that fight all foxed out. kakashi <apparently> could have kamui'd sasuke head off right away. kakashi could have ended his fight with zabuza and gone to effing help his students as soon as his blood was on zabuzas sword. itachi could have killed orochimaru those years ago <seems like 1/2 of akatsuki hated oro anyway, i doubt he would have been reprimanded haha>. when chasing deidara, naruto could have gone kyuubi and probably caught him much sooner. 4th hokage could have had another kunai in his hand so he could stab madara in the head. 1st hokage could have double tapped. while beating sasuke down, naruto could have had a rasengan in his hand. he could have taken sasuke's arm and just snapped it like a twig <both of them even>

Originally Posted by Nejifan

even if he didn't do it quickly the chidori would have decapitated him. it doesn't HAVE to be a forward thrust to do damage. a sideswipe would be just as effective at the point of attachment, e.g. a shoulder/knee/neck. had sasuke known about the cloak, he would have BEGUN the fight by going state 2, and chidori'd naruto's head off, either by targeting it originally, or by just piercing naruto's torso, then while naruto is too weak to fight back, cut his head off. just because no one HAS decapitated someone with chidori, doesn't mean it can't be done.

your right...it just means they are all too stupid. miracles can happen, a chidori through the heart may not be enough. taking someone head off generally gets the job done no matter what. even hidan would have been helpless had kakuzu not been there to sew his head back on

[Nejifan]

[quote=hahonryuu;1197206]


i disagree. especially since 2 people with = speed stats are not necessarily exactly equal in speed. if thatw ere true then any increase in speed your training gives you at all would be enough to get a .5 increase...which is obviously not the case since that would mean that rpetty much everyones physyical stats would be 5 >_>. perhaps it puts naruto on the high side of 4 and neji is currently on the low end of 4.5 to where he's little better than a 4. but of course that's more for you. personally i have no problem believing that someone having super powerful demonic chakra running through their <chakra> veins would get ridiculously faster...especially since sharingan <albeit incomplete> wasn't able to track his moves. him being as fast/faster than neji doesn't phase me at all.

I mean im not really saying Neji couldn't keep up with him on some level. I imagine at the chuunin exams that Naruto was faster than Neji, and though Neji had some trouble keeping up, he was still able to fight against him somewhat. so I'm not saying that naruto will be some sort of blur that neji wouldn't have a hope of fighting against



1) with guy...not necessarily. and even if it was that would be ungated. gate guy would still be faster.

2) we don't even know raikage's stats. and besides, did that lightning armor thing of his also make him faster?

3) oh NO, you mean a jinchuuriki, which are basically super shinobi, are faster than normal ninja? what is the world coming too. next you will be telling me that the bionic man is faster than me.



he did? cuz i remember the exact words "im all out of chakra *huff* *puff* you are too right?". after the gaara fight naruto was drained. and besides, that was against another jinchuuriki. and after gaara blew away naruto's 2k clones, naruto claimed to be, you guessed it, out of chakra <in the above quote, that was after he used up the little bit of chakra kyuubi gave him. he tapped kyuubi twice. once to summon bunta, then again to headbutt gaara>


im gonna go with "it didn't turn off, he just used it up. he didn't really call upon that much...he didn't even transform at all, was just glowing.". he fought against sasuke <seemingly> longer, but was fangs and claws, and as far as we saw was in no danger of leaving kyuubi mode.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

Even though this naruto has 1 tail capability, that doesn't mean he can use it all the live long day. especially because as he uses it it cuts away at his life force, just like tsunade's seal or susanoo. This naruto doesn't KNOW that he will be healed after the match.

i don't recall it ever saying it cuts his life force. i know that the cloak constantly causes damage to his body <hence arm going numb/4 tails+ mode ripping his skin off> and i recall jiraiya saying that because the high tiers of cloak cause so much damage to his body, which are then later super healed by the foxes chakra when the clock goes away that "this constant cycle of injury followed by accelerated healing weaken his body". i mean i guess by that logic it would indeed kill him eventually, but i don't think it necessarily cuts his life force. i don't think current naruto has any less life energy then 12 year old naruto.
and i don't think him knowing he's going to be healed or not matters. i mean come on, all he really knows about the cloak is that after using it against sasuke for a while, hi arm went numb. safe to say shippuuden naruto knows as much/more <perhaps knowing that it's dangerous to his body>, but it certainly hasn't stopped him. heck the only thing that slowed his reliance on kyuubi was hearing that when he loses control, he had hurt sakura. 1 tail doesn't cause him to lose his mind, and there are no friends to hurt anyway <not counting neji, after all characters have 100% motivation no matter who they are fighting>



bring chakra to your palm uses up chakra because the chakra is leaving your body to sit on your palm =/. spinning chakra that is already out of your body should do no such thing



you know, the closest things to examples/proof you can come up with are coming from DBZ and starwars =/

oh man its terrible. i just tried to move my ipod through force of will, but it didn't work. whats the deal? i thought you said that manipulating things through force of will happens easily and obeys me by default?


your right...it just means they are all too stupid. miracles can happen, a chidori through the heart may not be enough. taking someone head off generally gets the job done no matter what. even hidan would have been helpless had kakuzu not been there to sew his head back on

1: first bold part: good point. 2nd bolded part: not that much trouble. I mean, when naruto was using kyuubi chakra he didn't even HIT neji IIRC. Neji used up a lot of chakra with rotation and then they had that clash, which neji still got up from.....until of course he got floored by that lamo uppercut. I mean, coming out of the ground, you are going to notice that a ways before he actually breaks the surface. neji must have just been out of it cuz he was so tired lol.

2. that isn't exactly 'standard' for jinchuriki. gaara isn't fast, and I'd say that yugito wasn't exactly top tier in speed either, otherwise I'm pretty sure she could have handled the akatsuki that went after her. As far as we know, the only fast jinchuriki are naruto and killer bee. that's 2 of 9.

3. I thought he did. didn't he do that huge surge of chakra right after that (where he was all a flame of blue chakra? ) or was that before? I was thinking after. either way, point is, he was still pretty tired when he did that.

4. whether or not it was explicitly stated is irrelevant. It's a fact that your cells can only replicate/recover a certain amount of times. if they try to after that point is reached, it doesn't work and you die. 4 tails+ simply takes away a LOT more of life span than 1 tail or even no tails, but using any amount of kyuubi chakra drops how long you live. Same result as tsunade's seal, which I said before. and that one WAS stated that it dropped how long she would live.

5. a. chakra networks work both ways. you can pull chakra back into your body just like you can expel it, hence people like yoroi and jirobo. there is no reason that you wouldn't pull chidori's chakra or rasengan's chakra back in when you 'dispel' it. that's like saying you could hold a spinning rasengan in your hand for eternity and never get tired.
b. DBZ is the only anime that is comparable, that's why I have to use examples from that. yu yu hakasho/bleach aren't comparable.
c. that doesn't disprove anything I said. you not moving your ipod by willing it to move simply proves that we can't control objects by will. if we could, then it would have worked. that example doesn't thwart anything I said about chakra. lrn2debate lol

6. agreed. why can't WE be in this manga. we'd get the job done right ~_^

[hahonryuu]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

1: first bold part: good point. 2nd bolded part: not that much trouble. I mean, when naruto was using kyuubi chakra he didn't even HIT neji IIRC. Neji used up a lot of chakra with rotation and then they had that clash, which neji still got up from.....until of course he got floored by that lamo uppercut. I mean, coming out of the ground, you are going to notice that a ways before he actually breaks the surface. neji must have just been out of it cuz he was so tired lol.

maybe so but the difference was massive

104, page 4, 8th panel, naruto just vanishes and is all of a sudden behind neji int he air <as seen on the next page>. you say he still couldn't hit neji, but he mostly <for some reason...i assume for the same reason no oen chidori's people in the face> used projectiles. some shuriken and a kunai. they had a brief midair dbz style clash, but it didn't seem to do anything to either of them...also kinda like dbz haha

before naruto had to work pretty hard just to try to do SOMETHING. this time neji was pretty much constantly on the defensive <and not the way he was before where he completely had the upper hand. he was forced to defend these times>

if just glowing allows him to do that, especially his little disappearing act. then fangs/claws or 1 tail would just be that much stronger

Originally Posted by Nejifan

2. that isn't exactly 'standard' for jinchuriki. gaara isn't fast, and I'd say that yugito wasn't exactly top tier in speed either, otherwise I'm pretty sure she could have handled the akatsuki that went after her. As far as we know, the only fast jinchuriki are naruto and killer bee. that's 2 of 9.

well we've really only seen 2 jinchuuriki fight. we kinda sorta saw yugito, but not really. we basically just saw her transform and breathe fire then next time we see her...well, she'd seen better days. so considering that i think it would be better to say 2 of 3-4. and to be fair, gaara seems to be the exception from what we've seen...yugito bee and naruto all to some extent <at least bee and naruto, but it seemed like yugito did as well> tap into their demons chakra and augment themselves...gaara gets covered in sand. sand infused with demon chakra of course, but he himself doesn't appear to get anything directly. he gets help, but he himself doesn't seem to gain power the way 2 <possibly 3 and maybe all> others do

but my point wasn't that all jinchuuriki are fast, its that you really shouldn't be surprised that the super soldier, bionic, spartan <halo or 300>, jedi, or what have you, of the naruto world can gain so much speed. you act like its implausible, when it really doesn't seem all that hard to believe.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

3. I thought he did. didn't he do that huge surge of chakra right after that (where he was all a flame of blue chakra? ) or was that before? I was thinking after. either way, point is, he was still pretty tired when he did that.

talking about naruto vs gaara right?

order happened like this basically

-naruto uses some clones to 1k years of death and paper bomb gaara

-sasuke shows that he <used to> has a heart and tells naruto to get sakura out of here while he holds gaara off since he didn't want to lose his friends

-that touches naruto and he erupts with chakra and goes into "i will protect everyone" mode

-naruto makes <supposedly> 2000 clones and the naruto 2k combos gaara.

-naruto switches to stomp a stomping attack and attempts the 4k barrage...that didnt work so well as gaara blew the clones away in a rage and we see shukaku

-naruto says he's out of chakra. gaara about to sand coffin naruto. naruto makes his tenant pay his rent and uses the rent to summon gamabunta.

-they fight for a while, blah blah blah, gaara wakes up. gaara sand grabs naruto's feet. naruto blows it away with more fox chakra then goes in for the headbutt

-both standing on trees. naruto claims to be out of chakra and asks <rhetorically> if gaara is too. then they end it in oen final punch off...why naruto didnt ask for more rent as insurence i can only assume is for the same reason no one chidori's in the face

Originally Posted by Nejifan

4. whether or not it was explicitly stated is irrelevant. It's a fact that your cells can only replicate/recover a certain amount of times. if they try to after that point is reached, it doesn't work and you die. 4 tails+ simply takes away a LOT more of life span than 1 tail or even no tails, but using any amount of kyuubi chakra drops how long you live. Same result as tsunade's seal, which I said before. and that one WAS stated that it dropped how long she would live.

don't think fox works like that. surely someone would have said something by now. i mean he isnt the first jinchuuriki for it in leaf village. we've known about the healing thing longer than tsunade. no one has said anything since. and it doesn't matter anyway, it clearly doesn't happen quickly enough that his life is in any immediate danger in this fight.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

5. a. chakra networks work both ways.

prove it?

Originally Posted by Nejifan

you can pull chakra back into your body just like you can expel it hence people like yoroi and jirobo.

that's not quite the same thing. and even then, they are the only ones really doing that aside from transformed kisame and pain. we've seen soooo many shinobi, yet the only people we've seen take chakra into their bodies <and not even their own> are just those 4. 2 of them had something to do with orochimaru, which almost makes it being...natural in question <though i concede there's no proof its not, just pointing that out>. kisame needs to fuse with a freaky sword thing, and pain gets it from a a kekkeigenkai, one of/the most powerful of them at that

those are hardly good examples that you can just take your chakra back into your body when your done with it.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

there is no reason that you wouldn't pull chidori's chakra or rasengan's chakra back in when you 'dispel' it.

yet hey don't <and in chidori's case, i can think of a good reason. pulling lightning into your body doesn't seem very pro unless you are a fire bender>

Originally Posted by Nejifan

that's like saying you could hold a spinning rasengan in your hand for eternity and never get tired.

well i imagine your focus would give out eventually. but in theory, why not?

Originally Posted by Nejifan

b. DBZ is the only anime that is comparable, that's why I have to use examples from that. yu yu hakasho/bleach aren't comparable.

none really are. i mean i guess the water walking is kinda similar to how gohan explained flying <but on a smaller scale>, but that's basically just the every action has an equal/opposite reaction thing <only it definitely makes more sense with the flying that the walking on water since the water never appears to be...disturbed at all when apparently theres enough chakra going through it with enough force to have human beings walk on it like its solid>

Originally Posted by Nejifan

c. that doesn't disprove anything I said. you not moving your ipod by willing it to move simply proves that we can't control objects by will. if we could, then it would have worked. that example doesn't thwart anything I said about chakra. lrn2debate lol

fine then, i can't stop my blood from flowing just by willing it to. that make you happy? its a substance within my body. its the closest we're going to get real life in terms of this seeing as CHAKRA DOESNT EXIST.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

6. agreed. why can't WE be in this manga. we'd get the job done right ~_^

yeah, for starters, screw pain's dbz BS. screw danzous sharingarm/first hokage/shisui's eye stuff. screw sasuke's "im pretty much out of chakra but i'll still summon manda, hop in his mouth, then teleport us away in .0000000001 seconds" crap. screw his "i win" button in general. screw everyone but naruto, sasuke, and shikamaru being bad in a fight <amongst the 12 that is> screw females getting the shaft <wait...that may have come out wrong>. and screw not giving people chidori's in the face.

[hahonryuu]

but i have a surprise for you nejifan. i was <in this thread, not the other version of this fight int he other tier> playing devils advocate. while i believe naruto can put up a good fight and neji will probably look like he's seen better days by the end of the fight, i believe older neji can win this...kid neji is totally done for though. poor guy v_v <imo anyway>

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by hahonryuu

maybe so but the difference was massive

104, page 4, 8th panel, naruto just vanishes and is all of a sudden behind neji int he air <as seen on the next page>. you say he still couldn't hit neji, but he mostly <for some reason...i assume for the same reason no oen chidori's people in the face> used projectiles. some shuriken and a kunai. they had a brief midair dbz style clash, but it didn't seem to do anything to either of them...also kinda like dbz haha

before naruto had to work pretty hard just to try to do SOMETHING. this time neji was pretty much constantly on the defensive <and not the way he was before where he completely had the upper hand. he was forced to defend these times>

if just glowing allows him to do that, especially his little disappearing act. then fangs/claws or 1 tail would just be that much stronger


talking about naruto vs gaara right?

order happened like this basically

-naruto uses some clones to 1k years of death and paper bomb gaara

-sasuke shows that he <used to> has a heart and tells naruto to get sakura out of here while he holds gaara off since he didn't want to lose his friends

-that touches naruto and he erupts with chakra and goes into "i will protect everyone" mode-naruto makes <supposedly> 2000 clones and the naruto 2k combos gaara.

-naruto switches to stomp a stomping attack and attempts the 4k barrage...that didnt work so well as gaara blew the clones away in a rage and we see shukaku

-naruto says he's out of chakra. gaara about to sand coffin naruto. naruto makes his tenant pay his rent and uses the rent to summon gamabunta.

-they fight for a while, blah blah blah, gaara wakes up. gaara sand grabs naruto's feet. naruto blows it away with more fox chakra then goes in for the headbutt

-both standing on trees. naruto claims to be out of chakra and asks <rhetorically> if gaara is too. then they end it in oen final punch off...why naruto didnt ask for more rent as insurence i can only assume is for the same reason no one chidori's in the face



don't think fox works like that. surely someone would have said something by now. i mean he isnt the first jinchuuriki for it in leaf village. we've known about the healing thing longer than tsunade. no one has said anything since. and it doesn't matter anyway, it clearly doesn't happen quickly enough that his life is in any immediate danger in this fight.



prove it?




that's not quite the same thing. and even then, they are the only ones really doing that aside from transformed kisame and pain. we've seen soooo many shinobi, yet the only people we've seen take chakra into their bodies <and not even their own> are just those 4. 2 of them had something to do with orochimaru, which almost makes it being...natural in question <though i concede there's no proof its not, just pointing that out>. kisame needs to fuse with a freaky sword thing, and pain gets it from a a kekkeigenkai, one of/the most powerful of them at that

those are hardly good examples that you can just take your chakra back into your body when your done with it.





yet hey don't <and in chidori's case, i can think of a good reason. pulling lightning into your body doesn't seem very pro unless you are a fire bender>




well i imagine your focus would give out eventually. but in theory, why not?




none really are. i mean i guess the water walking is kinda similar to how gohan explained flying <but on a smaller scale>, but that's basically just the every action has an equal/opposite reaction thing <only it definitely makes more sense with the flying that the walking on water since the water never appears to be...disturbed at all when apparently theres enough chakra going through it with enough force to have human beings walk on it like its solid>



fine then, i can't stop my blood from flowing just by willing it to. that make you happy? its a substance within my body. its the closest we're going to get real life in terms of this seeing as CHAKRA DOESNT EXIST.

Originally Posted by hahonryuu

but i have a surprise for you nejifan. i was <in this thread, not the other version of this fight int he other tier> playing devils advocate. while i believe naruto can put up a good fight and neji will probably look like he's seen better days by the end of the fight, i believe older neji can win this...kid neji is totally done for though. poor guy v_v <imo anyway>

1. 1st bold: I agree. however this neji IS 'that much stronger', which is why I don't believe naruto would have a greater advantage than he did in the chunin exams.

2. the bolded part of the gvn fight is what I was referring to. he was already pretty tired when he summoned up that huge burst of chakra. I don't even remember why I brought this up at this point, but that is the scene I was referring to nonetheless.

3. not exactly a fair statement considering the fact that we've never seen anyone last more than a minute or two against naruto in tailed mode.

4. that doesn't mean they are the only ones who can, that just means they are the only ones who we know were proficient at it. I was speaking in hypotheticals anyway. Look at jirobo. even after using the earth style dome on the 5 of them he was 'still hungry' for chakra, meaning he wasn't at max. even draining chakra consumed some. My whole point was that even if you formed a rasengan, and COULD pull the chakra from it back into you, you'd still lose chakra.

5. see why I chose to compare DBZ as the logical example?

6. the blood example is no different than the ipod. you are still not grasping the concept properly. if you can 'move something by will', that in and of itself, means that whatever you want to happen happens (provided you still have the chakra for it).

7. HA! I win