Naruto Cup: Final Round Uzumaki Naruto vs. Hyuuga Neji

[codecatx5]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

when I say glow, I just mean he has the orange chakra around him, I lump fangs and claws in with that. my bad.

as for hiding in the forest, as I said, neji doesn't have to play offense, naruto does. neji is a lot more patient than naruto, so he gets to play defense because naruto would get more tired of waiting than he would. he can watch naruto from afar and stay out of his path, making naruto waste chakra. to top it off, anger makes a fighter more off his game, and neji is cool as a cucumber when it comes to battle. if naruto gets riled up, he's more likely to make mistakes. neji just has to evade/counter until he has a chance to get naruto in a OTK. stabbing through his throat with a kunai shoud do the trick. or stabbing his brain. (we're talking about either before/after naruto uses fox chakra). even at 100% motivation, naruto isn't going to start the battle by using fox chakra. even at 100% motivation, it's his last resort. even against neji.

Tell that to Kisame when he had to cut Naruto's Kyuubi chakra before Naruto even entered the fight. Naruto quite simply doesn't hold back if he can use the foxes chakra he will just like if he can hit you with a rasengan he's not gonna Uzumaki Barrage. Outside of that I hear it's hard to avoid something faster than you. I hear it's impossible to OTK a ninja who has literally has taken your best hit injured and still gets back up and attacks you. For Neji this is clearly a battle that's not gonna be decided in one hit and eith the foxes chakra it's unlikey that he'll actually be the one to steal that hit.

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by codecatx5

Tell that to Kisame when he had to cut Naruto's Kyuubi chakra before Naruto even entered the fight. Naruto quite simply doesn't hold back if he can use the foxes chakra he will just like if he can hit you with a rasengan he's not gonna Uzumaki Barrage. Outside of that I hear it's hard to avoid something faster than you. I hear it's impossible to OTK a ninja who has literally has taken your best hit injured and still gets back up and attacks you. For Neji this is clearly a battle that's not gonna be decided in one hit and eith the foxes chakra it's unlikey that he'll actually be the one to steal that hit.

to the bold: that's a lie. naruto has NEVER started a battle using fox chakra. Naruto has also ALWAYS been at 100% motivation, so that changes nothing.

even against god realm, he didn't use fox chakra until he had no other choice. same against gaara. same against sasuke. same against neji....need I go on? he didn't even use it against kabuto. Yeah, I see where you got the 'naruto never holds back' thing /sarcasm

as for 'neji's best attack', 64 palms is not his best attack. not in this case. 64 palm doesn't kill anyone, it just immobilizes them because it shuts off their chakra. neji killed kido maru in just a few hits in just a few seconds. what makes you think naruto would be more difficult, especially since he wont be in fox chakra when he gets hit.

Also, since when is naruto faster than neji in fox mode? you have no proof, it's all speculation. this is a OTK battle either way. 1 of two things will happen, naruto will land a rasengan, or neji will simply decapitate him (which he is beyond strong enough to do).

[codecatx5]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

to the bold: that's a lie. naruto has NEVER started a battle using fox chakra. Naruto has also ALWAYS been at 100% motivation, so that changes nothing.

even against god realm, he didn't use fox chakra until he had no other choice. same against gaara. same against sasuke. same against neji....need I go on? he didn't even use it against kabuto. Yeah, I see where you got the 'naruto never holds back' thing /sarcasm

as for 'neji's best attack', 64 palms is not his best attack. not in this case. 64 palm doesn't kill anyone, it just immobilizes them because it shuts off their chakra. neji killed kido maru in just a few hits in just a few seconds. what makes you think naruto would be more difficult, especially since he wont be in fox chakra when he gets hit.

Also, since when is naruto faster than neji in fox mode? you have no proof, it's all speculation. this is a OTK battle either way. 1 of two things will happen, naruto will land a rasengan, or neji will simply decapitate him (which he is beyond strong enough to do).

Whoa that's not true he's tried to go fox against Kisame after Sasuke got his wrist broken he tried and almost suceeded in pulling the foxes chakra out but kisame used Samehama to stop him. So it's entirely possible for him to do it. Now on the other hand I've never seen Neji move out the vision of a Byakugan then reappear in front of any enemy. Neji has never OTK'd anyone period Naruto definately wouldn't be as easy to OTK when he once again has super fox healing factor, Speed boost and Strength boost. Face it there is no reason you can give to put this in Neji's favor especially we already saw how this play's out with Naruto winning with Naruto not having the Rasengan or having been Fangs and Claws he was just glowing.

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by codecatx5

Whoa that's not true he's tried to go fox against Kisame after Sasuke got his wrist broken he tried and almost suceeded in pulling the foxes chakra out but kisame used Samehama to stop him. So it's entirely possible for him to do it. Now on the other hand I've never seen Neji move out the vision of a Byakugan then reappear in front of any enemy. Neji has never OTK'd anyone period Naruto definately wouldn't be as easy to OTK when he once again has super fox healing factor, Speed boost and Strength boost. Face it there is no reason you can give to put this in Neji's favor especially we already saw how this play's out with Naruto winning with Naruto not having the Rasengan or having been Fangs and Claws he was just glowing.

1: yeah it is true, he didn't actually fight, ergo, he has never started a fight in fox mode.

2: possible and 'will happen' aren't the same. there is no force that exists that could convince naruto to start a battle in fox mode. he WILL NOT use the fox until it's his only option.

3: saying neji never has done something is not the same as saying he can't. we've never seen kakashi OTK someone either,(even his lightning blade against haku wasn't a OTK ) but can he? yes. if naruto's head is cut off, the fox cannot heal him. neji is fully capable of decapitating naruto. he has the weapon, and he has the strength, and he has the speed.

4: even with fox mode speed, naruto would be hard pressed to beat neji. remeber the chunin exams? lee, with a full point of speed on neji, was certain that he STILL couldn't beat him in a fight. naruto doesn't have a full point on neji I can assure you of that. not even with the fox chakra.

5: naruto also won that match by the skin of his teeth, AND he used the fox chakra. and to be fair, neji underestimated him, which in case you didn't know, is a pretty big factor. naruto, while using fox chakra, still wasn't able to hit neji until that last uppercut. and that neji was at a 3 speed. this one is at 4.

[Dalegna]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

1: yeah it is true, he didn't actually fight, ergo, he has never started a fight in fox mode.

2: possible and 'will happen' aren't the same. there is no force that exists that could convince naruto to start a battle in fox mode. he WILL NOT use the fox until it's his only option.

3: saying neji never has done something is not the same as saying he can't. we've never seen kakashi OTK someone either,(even his lightning blade against haku wasn't a OTK ) but can he? yes. if naruto's head is cut off, the fox cannot heal him. neji is fully capable of decapitating naruto. he has the weapon, and he has the strength, and he has the speed.

4: even with fox mode speed, naruto would be hard pressed to beat neji. remeber the chunin exams? lee, with a full point of speed on neji, was certain that he STILL couldn't beat him in a fight. naruto doesn't have a full point on neji I can assure you of that. not even with the fox chakra.

5: naruto also won that match by the skin of his teeth, AND he used the fox chakra. and to be fair, neji underestimated him, which in case you didn't know, is a pretty big factor. naruto, while using fox chakra, still wasn't able to hit neji until that last uppercut. and that neji was at a 3 speed. this one is at 4.

umm i think he started the fight with Oro in 4 tails lol.

[hahonryuu]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

to the bold: that's a lie. naruto has NEVER started a battle using fox chakra. Naruto has also ALWAYS been at 100% motivation, so that changes nothing.

except kimimaro, orochimaru, and an attempt against kisame

Originally Posted by Nejifan

even against god realm, he didn't use fox chakra until he had no other choice. same against gaara. same against sasuke. same against neji....need I go on? he didn't even use it against kabuto. Yeah, I see where you got the 'naruto never holds back' thing /sarcasm

against pain: but he had a fox replacement in sage mode >_>. so he didn't need too

gaara: until the 10 story high raccoon dog made of sand appeared, he didn't need too. his normal strength was sufficient

sasuke: considering he did fairly well against sasuke on the roof, he probably felt he didn't need to. once it was apparent he did need too, he went straight for it

neji:...he didnt really remember he could do that until his chakra was turned off. he was all "man, this feels just like when my chakra was gone while training with that pervy...OMG i do have more chakra. woops"

he knows neji. he's fought against him. he knows that in his normal state, there isn't much he can do against him

Originally Posted by Nejifan

as for 'neji's best attack', 64 palms is not his best attack. not in this case. 64 palm doesn't kill anyone, it just immobilizes them because it shuts off their chakra. neji killed kido maru in just a few hits in just a few seconds. what makes you think naruto would be more difficult, especially since he wont be in fox chakra when he gets hit.

kidou didn't die right away and naruto heals pretty fast even without directly getting fox chakra since there's always a tiny amount mixed with his chakra normally. so he wouldn't just drop dead. from there the fox figures "dang it, can't a demon get a nap -_-" and pays his rent.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

Also, since when is naruto faster than neji in fox mode?

since always

Originally Posted by Nejifan

you have no proof, it's all speculation.

more like an educated guess. a fairly decent one i would say and you know what, we don't know every little detail about everyone. we're going to have to make some educated guesses at times. no different from how you and I "calculated" gaaras sand speed or sasuke's speed pre DB1. this is especially when it comes to the people who can transform since we have no transformed stats. jinchuuriki, sages, curse seal dudes, gates...all enigmas. especially when there are different levels. jinchuuriki getting more/less chakra effects their stats. state 1 vs state 2. different amount of gates. jiraiyas unmastered sage mode vs naruto's mastered one.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

this is a OTK battle either way. 1 of two things will happen, naruto will land a rasengan, or neji will simply decapitate him (which he is beyond strong enough to do).

decapitate...as in take his head off? sounds like some more chidori in the face stuff to me

Originally Posted by Nejifan

1: yeah it is true, he didn't actually fight, ergo, he has never started a fight in fox mode.

but he attempted to fight and when he did he went fox right away, kisame just went "yeah, no" then sasuke was all "stay out of this!"

Originally Posted by Nejifan

2: possible and 'will happen' aren't the same. there is no force that exists that could convince naruto to start a battle in fox mode. he WILL NOT use the fox until it's his only option.

except against kimimaro, orochimaru, and attempted kisame...and considering he knows how good neji is, even telling his pseudo teammates not to worry about him, i don't think getting to fox mode will be an issue

Originally Posted by Nejifan

3: saying neji never has done something is not the same as saying he can't.

...the same can be said for naruto going fox right away. double standard much =/

pro naruto people: he'll go fox asap!
you: no he wont he never starts off that way

you: neji will OTK him
pro naruto people: no he wont, he's never done that before
you: just because he's never done it doesn't mean he can't

i believe your exact words were "possible and 'will happen' are not the same thing'" so neji has never done it before, so while its possible, there is "no force in existence" that will convince neji to OTK naruto.

so from your point of view, only taking out the bias on neji, either naruto doesn't start fox and neji doesn't OTK him, giving time for the fox to be naruto's "last resort" or neji tries to OTK but naruto goes fox right away making him just heal too quickly

Originally Posted by Nejifan

we've never seen kakashi OTK someone either,(even his lightning blade against haku wasn't a OTK ) but can he? yes. if naruto's head is cut off, the fox cannot heal him.

have a question...how is naruto going to get his head cut off exactly? i mean we haven't really seen any decapitations aside from asuma cutting hidans head off and shika blowing hidan to bits...one method involved a blade infused with wind chakra. the other involved a bunch of explosives and a bunch of set up.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

neji is fully capable of decapitating naruto. he has the weapon, and he has the strength, and he has the speed.

im really not seeing a decapitation happening. kunai seem more like stabby stabby, not decapitation. and pretty much every ninja has kunai, yet we still never really see decapitations

Originally Posted by Nejifan

4: even with fox mode speed, naruto would be hard pressed to beat neji. remeber the chunin exams? lee, with a full point of speed on neji, was certain that he STILL couldn't beat him in a fight.

of course, because speed isnt everything. just because someone is faster, doesn't mean you can't fight against them. sasuke <unkown, assumed to be between 1.5 and 2.5> fought against haku <4>. neji <3 at the time lee made this statement> could apparently fight against lee <4>. hiruzen <3> fought against orochimaru <4.5>. sakura <1> fought against ino <2.5>.

being faster doesn't mean you are untouchable unless the difference in speed is just ridiculous <and even then its not impossible. just insanely hard>. so in the case of neji and lee, both can hit the other...but neji's blindspot is microscopic compared to a non-hyuuga, decreasing chances of a hit a bit, and neji's fight style is veeery dangerous. a hit from non-gate lee probably doesn't even compare to a hit from neji <especially considering lee's strength at the time was only 3 while neji's was 2.5. so even a normal no chakra added palm strike wouldnt be all that far off>. lee will break your bones, maybe. narutoverse ninjas can take a fair amount of punishment afterall. neji will cause a good amount of damage to your organs, guaranteed. well assuming he hits >_>. but i think we've established he most likely will when it comes to close combat.

thing is naruto nulls that since he's a healing machine. dealing lasting damage to fangs/claws naruto is difficult. even an attack that leaves him in shambles will get healed off relatively quickly. naruto's hits, however, WILL stick. and i don't think ungated lee could stop a giant snake in mid strike with his bare hands, so im gonna say those hits will be pretty good hits.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

naruto doesn't have a full point on neji I can assure you of that. not even with the fox chakra.

you can "assure" us of nothing. please, didn't you just complain how there's no proof of naruto being faster than neji, yet here you go doing the same thing...only with less evidence =/

Originally Posted by Nejifan

5: naruto also won that match by the skin of his teeth, AND he used the fox chakra.

less fox chakra than he will be using here. and i wouldn't call it the skin of his teeth. even after he won he was running around show boating. he was still capable of fighting. not to say it was a blow out, but "skin of his teeth" is going a bit far.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

and to be fair, neji underestimated him, which in case you didn't know, is a pretty big factor. naruto, while using fox chakra, still wasn't able to hit neji until that last uppercut. and that neji was at a 3 speed. this one is at 4.

that naruto was a 2 in speed, this one is 3...and you already told be you disagree with my theory of stats meaning more as they get higher, therefore to you, the difference in speed unfoxed is exactly the same. add in more fox chakra and voila.

but really i don't even know why i bothered posting. originally i just came here to quell the arguments by saying this

...we start voting on the weekends. not to say that once saturday hits that debating is pointless, but nothing really new has been said for a while now so i thought i would point it out. the 2 current matches going on have been done since yesterday. results will be found out tomorrow <err, today i guess> when the next match ups are in

but feel free to keep going. just don't kill yourselves over it unless you have some uber upset argument. but if you do, why haven't you said it yet?

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by hahonryuu

against pain: but he had a fox replacement in sage mode >_>. so he didn't need too

gaara: until the 10 story high raccoon dog made of sand appeared, he didn't need too. his normal strength was sufficient
sasuke: considering he did fairly well against sasuke on the roof, he probably felt he didn't need to. once it was apparent he did need too, he went straight for it

neji:...he didnt really remember he could do that until his chakra was turned off. he was all "man, this feels just like when my chakra was gone while training with that pervy...OMG i do have more chakra. woops"

he knows neji. he's fought against him. he knows that in his normal state, there isn't much he can do against him



kidou didn't die right away and naruto heals pretty fast even without directly getting fox chakra since there's always a tiny amount mixed with his chakra normally. so he wouldn't just drop dead. from there the fox figures "dang it, can't a demon get a nap -_-" and pays his rent.

decapitate...as in take his head off? sounds like some more chidori in the face stuff to me


but he attempted to fight and when he did he went fox right away, kisame just went "yeah, no" then sasuke was all "stay out of this!"

except against kimimaro, orochimaru, and attempted kisame...and considering he knows how good neji is, even telling his pseudo teammates not to worry about him, i don't think getting to fox mode will be an issue


...the same can be said for naruto going fox right away. double standard much =/

pro naruto people: he'll go fox asap!
you: no he wont he never starts off that way

you: neji will OTK him
pro naruto people: no he wont, he's never done that before
you: just because he's never done it doesn't mean he can't

i believe your exact words were "possible and 'will happen' are not the same thing'" so neji has never done it before, so while its possible, there is "no force in existence" that will convince neji to OTK naruto.

so from your point of view, only taking out the bias on neji, either naruto doesn't start fox and neji doesn't OTK him, giving time for the fox to be naruto's "last resort" or neji tries to OTK but naruto goes fox right away making him just heal too quickly



thing is naruto nulls that since he's a healing machine. dealing lasting damage to fangs/claws naruto is difficult. even an attack that leaves him in shambles will get healed off relatively quickly. naruto's hits, however, WILL stick. and i don't think ungated lee could stop a giant snake in mid strike with his bare hands, so im gonna say those hits will be pretty good hits.



you can "assure" us of nothing. please, didn't you just complain how there's no proof of naruto being faster than neji, yet here you go doing the same thing...only with less evidence =/


less fox chakra than he will be using here. and i wouldn't call it the skin of his teeth. even after he won he was running around show boating. he was still capable of fighting. not to say it was a blow out, but "skin of his teeth" is going a bit far.



that naruto was a 2 in speed, this one is 3...and you already told be you disagree with my theory of stats meaning more as they get higher, therefore to you, the difference in speed unfoxed is exactly the same. add in more fox chakra and voila.

1st bold: that's EXACTLY my point. Naruto's goal in life is to become hokage, and to do it without having to rely on fox chakra. As long as he believes there is even a 1% chance of victory without fox mode, he's not using it.

2nd bold: no he doesn't. it takes a full day for a messed up arm to heal, and that's easier to heal than organ damage. he doesn't heal quickly at all without fox chakra.

3rd bold: would not be hard to do. even I have strength enough to decapitate someone, and neji is far stronger. (besides, zabuza decapitate a bunch of people with a kunai IN HIS MOUTH! proving that kunai can decapitate people. neji can do it far more easily with one in his hand.)

4th bold: not exactly the same. Against Kimi: didn't even know he started in it. I know he used it, but I wasn't under the impression he began the fight in it. I suppose 'never' was incorrect then.
Against Orochi: he was angry, it was triggered by emotion, not him realizing that he couldn't do it without. that's why he went 4 tails and couldn't control it. Against Kisame: I really don't think that was 'at will' either, because surely naruto had more fox chakra than he had absorbed. Also, not exactly a fair comparison. yes, he started with fox chakra, but that was when he though he was going to have to fight 2 SANNIN LEVEL NINJA simultaneously. neji is no where near sannin level.

5th bold: it's not a double standard, it's you looking lumping the two in the same category, which they aren't in. Twisting people's meaning doesn't create valid counter arguements. the 'possible doesn't mean will happen' was based on personality and personal belief/desire, while neji's is based on capability. they aren't the same.

naruto doesn't even know about neji's speed increase from the chunin exams. he doesn't know about ANY of his stat increases. he knows only about ninjutsu, so he knows about air palm, thats the only new info naruto has from when he fought neji in the exams. why would he use the fox if he knew that he had gotten so much faster and stronger (I believe you said every stat went up by at least .5) and wasn't aware that neji had? as far as naruto knows, neji is a 3 speed. I don't believe that naruto, also being a 3 speed, would feel the need to start the battle in fox mode.

6th bold: again. he will die before activating it via decapitation.

7th bold: considering that for the sake of the tournament, all 5's are equal in speed, and that neji is a 4, naruto would have to be equal in speed to guy to be a full point on neji. from what we've seen, we have no reason to believe he is THAT fast. that's what I meant by 'assuring you'.

8th bold: did you read a different fight than I did? after he beat neji in the exams he could barely stand up. 1 hit would have beaten him, therefore, he won by the skin of his teeth.

9th bold: same as what? neji is a 4, not a 3. (but naruto doesn't know that).