Naruto 515 *Spoilers*

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by Sharingan_Warrior5693

You logic is terrible.

1. Orochimaru cannot be resurrected since he isn't dead.

2. Why would Kabuto resurrect him when his main goal in life now is to surpass Orochimaru?

and you say MY logic is terrible? Orochimaru is just as dead as the 3rd or 4th is. they are all 3 sealed away for eternity in another plane of existence. The fact that they were sealed by different techs is irrelevant, since the result is the same. all 3 had their souls taken to a different plane of existence, ergo, if any of them can be reanimated, so can the other two.

as for number 2, he already HAS surpassed him by quite a ways, so what does he have to worry about. Besides, it's not like orochi would be able to turn on him since he couldn't beat him in a fight.

3. as per the previous chapter, apparently they were not summoned by edo tensei, which uses their soul but not their body, rather this new summoning which uses their body AND soul together to bring back the REAL version, so the point is now moot.

Originally Posted by hahonryuu

i disagree only because orochimaru's existence atm is odd and arguable. heck, i just thought of something i didn't before cuz im reading this at 3am and im very tired...oro only got his arms sealed. how does him not being summonable make the hokage's being revived invalid in anyway? if i missed something and am not thinking straight i apologize. please point it out when you read this if i am.

better to say "if one hokage can't be revived, none of them can". not counting tsunade of course



that is the failest of fail logic. plenty of people stronger then the "weaklings" of kabuto's reanimation's haven't been revived and their souls are totally ok as far as we know. i mean we have no real reason to assume daddy hatake's soul is, like, sealed off. heck kakashi saw him on his way to the afterlife. jiraiya sunk down and hasn't been seen since. no reason to think his soul got vaporized or sealed away or anything.

orochimaru's existence is no different than sarutobi's or minato's, excluding kabuto's creepy as heck science experiment with himself :P

as per chapter 516, they have not been reanimated using edo tensei, and as it turns out they are in their real bodies, which explains why orochimaru/jiraiya haven't been animated, since jiraiya's body is at the bottom of the ocean, and orochimaru's body is part of kabuto now. In this different summoning, he needs both their body AND soul, since he brings back the REAL ninja.

[Sharingan_Warrior5693]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

and you say MY logic is terrible? Orochimaru is just as dead as the 3rd or 4th is. they are all 3 sealed away for eternity in another plane of existence. The fact that they were sealed by different techs is irrelevant, since the result is the same. all 3 had their souls taken to a different plane of existence, ergo, if any of them can be reanimated, so can the other two.

as for number 2, he already HAS surpassed him by quite a ways, so what does he have to worry about. Besides, it's not like orochi would be able to turn on him since he couldn't beat him in a fight.

3. as per the previous chapter, apparently they were not summoned by edo tensei, which uses their soul but not their body, rather this new summoning which uses their body AND soul together to bring back the REAL version, so the point is now moot.




orochimaru's existence is no different than sarutobi's or minato's, excluding kabuto's creepy as heck science experiment with himself :P

as per chapter 516, they have not been reanimated using edo tensei, and as it turns out they are in their real bodies, which explains why orochimaru/jiraiya haven't been animated, since jiraiya's body is at the bottom of the ocean, and orochimaru's body is part of kabuto now. In this different summoning, he needs both their body AND soul, since he brings back the REAL ninja.

1. Orochimaru is trapped in a Genjutsu. The 3rd and 4th have has their souls sealed away in the god of death. Big difference in the fact that one is dead and the other is not, and where are you getting this "It is their real bodies" crap from? I certainly didn't read anything like that.

[hahonryuu]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

and you say MY logic is terrible? Orochimaru is just as dead as the 3rd or 4th is. they are all 3 sealed away for eternity in another plane of existence. The fact that they were sealed by different techs is irrelevant, since the result is the same. all 3 had their souls taken to a different plane of existence, ergo, if any of them can be reanimated, so can the other two.

as for number 2, he already HAS surpassed him by quite a ways, so what does he have to worry about. Besides, it's not like orochi would be able to turn on him since he couldn't beat him in a fight.

3. as per the previous chapter, apparently they were not summoned by edo tensei, which uses their soul but not their body, rather this new summoning which uses their body AND soul together to bring back the REAL version, so the point is now moot.




orochimaru's existence is no different than sarutobi's or minato's, excluding kabuto's creepy as heck science experiment with himself :P

as per chapter 516, they have not been reanimated using edo tensei, and as it turns out they are in their real bodies, which explains why orochimaru/jiraiya haven't been animated, since jiraiya's body is at the bottom of the ocean, and orochimaru's body is part of kabuto now. In this different summoning, he needs both their body AND soul, since he brings back the REAL ninja.

you seem to be assuming quite a bit. that or the chapter you read was several pages longer and more detailed. if so you should pm me a link, cuz i wanna read the chapter you read

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by Sharingan_Warrior5693

1. Orochimaru is trapped in a Genjutsu. The 3rd and 4th have has their souls sealed away in the god of death. Big difference in the fact that one is dead and the other is not, and where are you getting this "It is their real bodies" crap from? I certainly didn't read anything like that.

1. orochimaru is 'sealed' in a genjutsu, it's not a breakable genjutsu. he is still sealed away for eternity so I fail to see a difference in reachability as far as reanimation is concerned.

2. kabuto isn't using edo tensei aka "summoning jutsu: reanimation", he is using, "Impure world ressurection", which has to be different to edo tensei in some way otherwise the name wouldn't change. ergo, I inferred that he must need their actual body, since that is the only feasable difference I could think of, since edo tensei reanimates them at full power already. It also explains why we haven't seen the people we haven't seen. Until finding out otherwise, I will hold to that statement.

Also, why wouldn't he have full control of them. We have already seen that kabuto has greater mastery of edo tensei than orochimaru had, and edo tensei DID give him full control of them, so why wouldn't he have full control now? it's possible that it is simply the number of reanimations that gives him trouble, but it could be that that is another difference in the technique. If they are in their actual bodies, that would explain why he has less control.

[hahonryuu]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

1. orochimaru is 'sealed' in a genjutsu, it's not a breakable genjutsu. he is still sealed away for eternity so I fail to see a difference in reachability as far as reanimation is concerned.

well that's on you

Originally Posted by Nejifan

2. kabuto isn't using edo tensei aka "summoning jutsu: reanimation", he is using, "Impure world ressurection", which has to be different to edo tensei in some way otherwise the name wouldn't change.

yeah it couldn't possibly be translation errors/differences. just like how naruto's seal changed over the years from 4 elephant to 4 elemental...gotta love those evolving seals and how lee actually knows like 5 different lotuses, initial, primary, reverse, hidden, and extreme. or how shikamaru knows the shadow mimic and the shadow imitation. or how yamato knows the rapid crusher and the crushing rapids technique


its. the same. jutsu. how you came to a different conclusion baffles me to no end

Originally Posted by Nejifan

ergo, I inferred that he must need their actual body, since that is the only feasable difference I could think of, since edo tensei reanimates them at full power already. It also explains why we haven't seen the people we haven't seen. Until finding out otherwise, I will hold to that statement.

so you'll hold to something you made up entirely for no reason at all?

Originally Posted by Nejifan

Also, why wouldn't he have full control of them. We have already seen that kabuto has greater mastery of edo tensei than orochimaru had, and edo tensei DID give him full control of them, so why wouldn't he have full control now? it's possible that it is simply the number of reanimations that gives him trouble, but it could be that that is another difference in the technique. If they are in their actual bodies, that would explain why he has less control.

what in the world are you talking about?

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by hahonryuu

well that's on you



yeah it couldn't possibly be translation errors/differences. just like how naruto's seal changed over the years from 4 elephant to 4 elemental...gotta love those evolving seals and how lee actually knows like 5 different lotuses, initial, primary, reverse, hidden, and extreme. or how shikamaru knows the shadow mimic and the shadow imitation. or how yamato knows the rapid crusher and the crushing rapids technique


its. the same. jutsu. how you came to a different conclusion baffles me to no end



so you'll hold to something you made up entirely for no reason at all?



what in the world are you talking about?

Well, considering what I've read of the manga has been pretty consistent (I've never read about 'shadow mimic/imitation' or 'extreme lotus' or rapid crusher vs crushing rapids before) I took it as a separate technique. if it isn't a separate tech, then I apologize, however since there is still the 'why didn't he summon jiraiya' thing going, I would guess that it is slightly different, since their is no logical reason to not have summoned him. his soul is just as easy to reach as zabuza's, and jiraiya is like 10 zabuza's. (if you include sage mode, but without he's still like 4 of them :P )

As for the 'what are you talking about'...Kabuto said in the manga that he didn't have full control of them, just the majority of their bodily movement, but that 'eventually' he would have FULL control over them, which included their minds and what not. This confuses me.

[SharinganHeir]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

1. orochimaru is 'sealed' in a genjutsu, it's not a breakable genjutsu. he is still sealed away for eternity so I fail to see a difference in reachability as far as reanimation is concerned.

2. kabuto isn't using edo tensei aka "summoning jutsu: reanimation", he is using, "Impure world ressurection", which has to be different to edo tensei in some way otherwise the name wouldn't change. ergo, I inferred that he must need their actual body, since that is the only feasable difference I could think of, since edo tensei reanimates them at full power already. It also explains why we haven't seen the people we haven't seen. Until finding out otherwise, I will hold to that statement.

Also, why wouldn't he have full control of them. We have already seen that kabuto has greater mastery of edo tensei than orochimaru had, and edo tensei DID give him full control of them, so why wouldn't he have full control now? it's possible that it is simply the number of reanimations that gives him trouble, but it could be that that is another difference in the technique. If they are in their actual bodies, that would explain why he has less control.

First, http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Edo_Tensei

Second, why in the world would you think he needed their original bodies? I don't think Kabuto has the capability of finding/recovering Sasori's original body. And wasn't Deidara's body blown to smithereens? Quit making things up and trying to use them as arguments for your case, which is falling apart.

[hahonryuu]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

Well, considering what I've read of the manga has been pretty consistent (I've never read about 'shadow mimic/imitation' or 'extreme lotus' or rapid crusher vs crushing rapids before) I took it as a separate technique. if it isn't a separate tech, then I apologize, however since there is still the 'why didn't he summon jiraiya' thing going, I would guess that it is slightly different, since their is no logical reason to not have summoned him. his soul is just as easy to reach as zabuza's, and jiraiya is like 10 zabuza's. (if you include sage mode, but without he's still like 4 of them :P )

As for the 'what are you talking about'...Kabuto said in the manga that he didn't have full control of them, just the majority of their bodily movement, but that 'eventually' he would have FULL control over them, which included their minds and what not. This confuses me.

*sigh* yeah that's what i thought you meant, but i wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt

1) kabuto said it himself that controlling that many at once is difficult. that right there should void your confusion

2) he said he would eventually take full control over them and turn them into fighting machines like oro did to the hokage's.

3) the only time i personally have ever heard of "summoning: reanimation" is in the english dub anime/card game. otherwise ive always heard it as edo tensei <untranslated>, impure world resurrection, or worldly resurrection. and ive read versions from several different translators before i had a place to read them consistently at. i was almost always at a different site.

EDIT: btw, just because you haven't heard of it, doesn't mean the manga has/hasn't been consistent. it just means you have been reading them from the same people or people who followed what people did int he past to save time/not to confuse people. EX: when naruto was training with bee in a TL note, the dude said "btw i had been calling naruto's seal four elephant to be consistent with past translations. but now im changing it to the more appropriate 4 elemental seal" or something along those lines. im looking at a site right now that has the very TITLE of chapter 86 "extreme lotus". i have also heard the 3+ gate lotus as being called primary, reverse, and hidden <in the dub/cardgame>. and the 1+ gate lotus as initial and primary. i originally heard my namesake as "rapid crusher" but later as "crashing rapids". the shikamaru example doesn't really matter since really, those were basically synonyms and any word like that can be used and wouldn't really be wrong.


long story short. it. is. the . same. jutsu.