Naruto Cup: Round 3 Inuzuka Kiba vs. Sakon

[Hikari Link]

For the rules and scenario, go here. This thread will contain only new information.

Sakon:
Sakon is at full power, healed to 100% before he died. No Ukon.

Kiba:
Kiba is at full power, healed to 100% after his battle with Sakon. No restrictions.

Haku was named the victor of last round.

This is an interesting rematch, but without Ukon, will Sakon be able to clinch the victory again or will Kiba avenge his previous defeat? Let the debate begin.

[slynara]

Haku won! Knew he would of from the start.

I don't know about this, its a little shaky. Sakon has his curse mark but can't fully use it to the best of his ability without Ukon, but each of them can take on jonin level ninjas and survive...im gonna have to reread the manga before i can decide...but for now, im leaning toward sakon.

[hahonryuu]

Originally Posted by slynara

Haku won! Knew he would of from the start.

I don't know about this, its a little shaky. Sakon has his curse mark but can't fully use it to the best of his ability without Ukon, but each of them can take on jonin level ninjas and survive...im gonna have to reread the manga before i can decide...but for now, im leaning toward sakon.

IIRC the S5 had the jonin outnumbered <i wanna say it was all of them vs 2, but it might have been 3. i know it wasn't 4 cuz shizune wasn't there>...had it been one on one there is no telling what would have happened. so saying that he could beat a jonin 1on1 is kinda baseless. run for their money sure. and depending on the jonin, maybe win. unless im remembering it wrong. if so then please correct me :P

but regardless, being able to take on jonin doesn't mean much since they were all beaten by genin...mind you these genin were pretty much the strongest genin in the world, but still.

well the only reason he beat kiba before was because of sakon and their ability to split apart...that garouga hit them dead on. if they couldn't split up at will then they probably would have lost right there

and i also wanna say that kiba started that fight at a disadvantage, and of course since there was 2 of them, he lost his usual advantage of numbers.

of course this time sakon knows their tricks, and kiba claims its dangerous to use the double headed wolf when they don't have back up <im not quite sure why, but whatever>

i think kiba has the edge, but its not an auto win since his best bet requires some set up, and this time sakon knows its coming

[PsychoKarin]

Originally Posted by hahonryuu

IIRC the S5 had the jonin outnumbered <i wanna say it was all of them vs 2, but it might have been 3. i know it wasn't 4 cuz shizune wasn't there>...had it been one on one there is no telling what would have happened. so saying that he could beat a jonin 1on1 is kinda baseless. run for their money sure. and depending on the jonin, maybe win. unless im remembering it wrong. if so then please correct me :P

but regardless, being able to take on jonin doesn't mean much since they were all beaten by genin...mind you these genin were pretty much the strongest genin in the world, but still.

well the only reason he beat kiba before was because of sakon and their ability to split apart...that garouga hit them dead on. if they couldn't split up at will then they probably would have lost right there

and i also wanna say that kiba started that fight at a disadvantage, and of course since there was 2 of them, he lost his usual advantage of numbers.

of course this time sakon knows their tricks, and kiba claims its dangerous to use the double headed wolf when they don't have back up <im not quite sure why, but whatever>

i think kiba has the edge, but its not an auto win since his best bet requires some set up, and this time sakon knows its coming

It's dangerous to use DH Wolf without backup because of the Wolf's terrible depth perception. It has to rely on smell the most.

That being said, Kiba should win this fight. Sakon's power is greatly diminished without Ukon, and Kiba's fight was the closest of all the fights against the Sound Five. Choji pulverized Jirobo once he went pills, Kidomaru had Neji beat, but let his arrogance get the better of him, Tayuya overwhelmed Shikamaru when she went state 2, but Kiba's fight with Sakon went back and forth with both sides nearly claiming the win.

But without Ukon, Kiba should win this fight. Sakon without Ukon is like Kiba without Akamaru, not really fair.

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by PsychoKarin

But without Ukon, Kiba should win this fight. Sakon without Ukon is like Kiba without Akamaru, not really fair.

^^this. but technically it's more like kiba without akamaru, since akamaru on his own as a puppy can't even fight. all he can do is take a leak on you, which although annoying, isn't going to be effecttive but even without double headed wolf, kiba and akamaru are both 3.5 in speed, and since even fighting 1 vs 1 when you can match your opponents speed is tricky, fighting 2 vs 1 is dang near impossible. that's like having gaara fight 2 rock lee's...he'd get hyperpwned...DHW is unneccessary, since simple taijutsu should do the trick. easy win for kiba.

Originally Posted by hahonryuu

IIRC the S5 had the jonin outnumbered <i wanna say it was all of them vs 2, but it might have been 3. i know it wasn't 4 cuz shizune wasn't there>...had it been one on one there is no telling what would have happened. so saying that he could beat a jonin 1on1 is kinda baseless. run for their money sure. and depending on the jonin, maybe win. unless im remembering it wrong. if so then please correct me :P

of course this time sakon knows their tricks, and kiba claims its dangerous to use the double headed wolf when they don't have back up <im not quite sure why, but whatever>

i think kiba has the edge, but its not an auto win since his best bet requires some set up, and this time sakon knows its coming

1st bold: they weren't jonin, they were special jonin, which means they were significantly weaker. standard jonin (leaf village wise) is about kurenai level. they, on the other hand, weren't much better than izumo and kotetsu, who are both chunin. from what I gather "special jonin" basically says you got promoted to 'jonin' for reasons other than your battle prowess. (like weak *$$ ebisu)

2nd bold: kiba's best bet has nothing to do with DHW, as it would be an unneccessary waste of chakra against sakon by himself. sakon can barely hand kiba by himself in hand to hand combat. kiba AND akamaru should be more than he can handle. standard fang over fang ftw!

[MinatoNamikaze]

[quote=Nejifan;1178772]^^this. but technically it's more like kiba without akamaru, since akamaru on his own as a puppy can't even fight. all he can do is take a leak on you, which although annoying, isn't going to be effecttive but even without double headed wolf, kiba and akamaru are both 3.5 in speed, and since even fighting 1 vs 1 when you can match your opponents speed is tricky, fighting 2 vs 1 is dang near impossible. that's like having gaara fight 2 rock lee's...he'd get hyperpwned...DHW is unneccessary, since simple taijutsu should do the trick. easy win for kiba.[quote]


actually i am pretty sure this kiba has a 4 in speed, so it really is like having 2 rock lee's fight him. assuming aka is the same speed of course.

however while sakon can't combo the way he did before, he still has good stats on his own, and the curse seal would amplify them. unfortunately we dont know how big the stat increase is, but still

kiba

nin: 2.5
tai: 2.5
gen: 1
int: 1.5
str: 3
spd: 3
sta: 2
seals: 2.5


sakon, un-cursed

nin: 4
tai: 3
gen: 1
int: 2.5
str: 3.5
spd: 3
sta: 4
seals: 4

looks like even normal sakon would be able to at east put up a fight. cursed out he's even more powerful, and in state 2 even more

i think kiba will win but i think you are making this out to be much easier for him than it really will be

Originally Posted by Nejifan

1st bold: they weren't jonin, they were special jonin, which means they were significantly weaker. standard jonin (leaf village wise) is about kurenai level. they, on the other hand, weren't much better than izumo and kotetsu, who are both chunin. from what I gather "special jonin" basically says you got promoted to 'jonin' for reasons other than your battle prowess. (like weak *$$ ebisu)

2nd bold: kiba's best bet has nothing to do with DHW, as it would be an unneccessary waste of chakra against sakon by himself. sakon can barely hand kiba by himself in hand to hand combat. kiba AND akamaru should be more than he can handle. standard fang over fang ftw!

1st: true but it doesnt mean they aren't strong. rank =/= power. look at neji, his stat increase from the end of the sasuke arc to the time skip wasnt dramatic. you could say even as a genin he already had jonin level stats. while its true that they aren't generally as powerful, it doesn't mean that there can't be strong ones among them. while ebisu is weak, his specialty is teaching, hence his stats looking like the 3rd hokage's (high skills and intelligence, but low physical ability). but the ones that fought the sound 4, considering they were on a mission, clearly are more adapted to field work

can someone help me out here? i know one of the 2 was genma, but who was the other one?


that being said, i do think you ahve a point. though i want to say even against slow as a slug naruto, kiba didnt hit him EVERYTIME. i would have to look, but i wanna say naruto was able to dodge a couple. so a cursed sakon would probably be able to as well.

but still, kiba is relentless and his speed is natural and requires no set up. and the curse seal takes chakra, even more so at state 2. so kiba at the start could wail on him until he goes curse mode, then he could flee if things get dangerous and just let sakon

a. run out of chakra
b. wait until he goes out of curse mode then start all over again

he can go all gurilla warfare on him

[hahonryuu]

remember this though minato, we don't know how much his curse mark gives him or in what stats

we know the different styles aren't just aesthetic, each seal is actually different in power. perhaps his just increases his speed, or just strength. or one much more significantly than the other, etc

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by hahonryuu

remember this though minato, we don't know how much his curse mark gives him or in what stats

we know the different styles aren't just aesthetic, each seal is actually different in power. perhaps his just increases his speed, or just strength. or one much more significantly than the other, etc

precisely. if I recall, jirobo's curse mark gave him only strength (albiet a LOT of strength :P)

Originally Posted by MinatoNamikaze

actually i am pretty sure this kiba has a 4 in speed, so it really is like having 2 rock lee's fight him. assuming aka is the same speed of course.

however while sakon can't combo the way he did before, he still has good stats on his own, and the curse seal would amplify them. unfortunately we dont know how big the stat increase is, but still

kiba

nin: 2.5
tai: 2.5
gen: 1
int: 1.5
str: 3
spd: 3
sta: 2
seals: 2.5


sakon, un-cursed

nin: 4
tai: 3
gen: 1
int: 2.5
str: 3.5
spd: 3
sta: 4
seals: 4

looks like even normal sakon would be able to at east put up a fight. cursed out he's even more powerful, and in state 2 even more

i think kiba will win but i think you are making this out to be much easier for him than it really will be



1st: true but it doesnt mean they aren't strong. rank =/= power. look at neji, his stat increase from the end of the sasuke arc to the time skip wasnt dramatic. you could say even as a genin he already had jonin level stats. while its true that they aren't generally as powerful, it doesn't mean that there can't be strong ones among them. while ebisu is weak, his specialty is teaching, hence his stats looking like the 3rd hokage's (high skills and intelligence, but low physical ability). but the ones that fought the sound 4, considering they were on a mission, clearly are more adapted to field work

can someone help me out here? i know one of the 2 was genma, but who was the other one?


that being said, i do think you ahve a point. though i want to say even against slow as a slug naruto, kiba didnt hit him EVERYTIME. i would have to look, but i wanna say naruto was able to dodge a couple. so a cursed sakon would probably be able to as well.

but still, kiba is relentless and his speed is natural and requires no set up. and the curse seal takes chakra, even more so at state 2. so kiba at the start could wail on him until he goes curse mode, then he could flee if things get dangerous and just let sakon

a. run out of chakra
b. wait until he goes out of curse mode then start all over again

he can go all gurilla warfare on him

1st bold: perhaps, but since we have akamaru, all of kiba's physical stats basically get a x2.

2nd bold: rank is not a perfect equivalent, however you DO have to have a certain amount of power to be awarded jonin rank. and izumo and kotestu, who are chunin, did more against the akatsuki than genma and RAIDO did against the sound nins, and the akatsuki are stronger. hayate gecko is the best special jonin we've seen so far, and he got handled quite easily by a standard level jonin. and while neji's stats may not have increased dramatically, his actual combat ability overall and proficiency with byakugan increased by a significant amount. heck, even from when he fought naruto during the chunin exams to the sasuke retrieval arc he got better.

3rd bold: as stated, his name is RAIDO. they are always shown together, how did you forget him? :/

[hahonryuu]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

1st bold: perhaps, but since we have akamaru, all of kiba's physical stats basically get a x2.

thats kind of true, but a bad way to look at it. transformations, near as i can tell, are mostly for looks. while you get to use any new appendages <like bunta/naruto were able to use the fox tails and claws when they transformed against gaara> and the like, they don't make you stronger. using the bunta/naruto example again, they didn't become as powerful as the fox just because they transformed

so unless you are suggesting that little puppy is as strong as kiba...

EX: kiba has 3 strength. so using your argument, lets say akamaru has 3 as well. now lets say for the sake for argument that sakon has some magical barrier that can only be penetrated by 3.5 strength. each of their hits would only be worth 3 strength, so even together they can't break through


i get what you mean, i just think that wording it that way is a bit extreme. that would mean that kiba would have a 5 in ninjutsu and taijutsu, 6 strength, 8 speed, and 4 stamina

that's pretty hardcore. stats aren't everything but those stats, especially that 8 speed combined with that insane 6 strength, means he could soundly beat ninja on a far higher level than him normally. i mean you can overcome a certain amount of difference...but he would literally be twice as fast <or nearly so> as any other ninja, if not more so.

if someone is 3+ points faster than you AND can deal brutal damage <unless he's off the charts, which even then he probably isn't by much, that's stronger/as strong as guy>

so if that were truly the case, there would be no argument in favor of kibas opponents...ever. ok maybe against someone like itachi who could kill/incapacitate him at the start of the battle with a glance.

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by hahonryuu

thats kind of true, but a bad way to look at it. transformations, near as i can tell, are mostly for looks. while you get to use any new appendages <like bunta/naruto were able to use the fox tails and claws when they transformed against gaara> and the like, they don't make you stronger. using the bunta/naruto example again, they didn't become as powerful as the fox just because they transformed

so unless you are suggesting that little puppy is as strong as kiba...

EX: kiba has 3 strength. so using your argument, lets say akamaru has 3 as well. now lets say for the sake for argument that sakon has some magical barrier that can only be penetrated by 3.5 strength. each of their hits would only be worth 3 strength, so even together they can't break through


i get what you mean, i just think that wording it that way is a bit extreme. that would mean that kiba would have a 5 in ninjutsu and taijutsu, 6 strength, 8 speed, and 4 stamina

that's pretty hardcore. stats aren't everything but those stats, especially that 8 speed combined with that insane 6 strength, means he could soundly beat ninja on a far higher level than him normally. i mean you can overcome a certain amount of difference...but he would literally be twice as fast <or nearly so> as any other ninja, if not more so.

if someone is 3+ points faster than you AND can deal brutal damage <unless he's off the charts, which even then he probably isn't by much, that's stronger/as strong as guy>

so if that were truly the case, there would be no argument in favor of kibas opponents...ever. ok maybe against someone like itachi who could kill/incapacitate him at the start of the battle with a glance.

while I agree that I oversimplified things with that statement, I would say that akamaru when transformed, would HAVE to be able to keep up with kiba, otherwise it would be obvious which one was the real kiba, unless kiba slowed down to match aka's speed, crippling his natural advantage. he would also have to be fairly strong, because otherwise you could tell by the strength of the blows which one was akamaru. If I can figure these types of things out, I guarantee every ninja in naruto can as well. (even naruto )