Sasori VS Itachi- Who Would Win?

[Hikari Link]

Double-post cause I typed too much.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

distract 100 puppets with a shadow clone? come on... a shadow clone to disctract an army? thats...not gonna happen, im sure of that... in a high skilled fight between two ninjas something like a shadown clone distraction vs an army is not gonna do anything.

Except as you go on to point out, this puppets have no senses. It's not like one will point out Itachi to Sasori. All he needs to do is escape Sasori's field f vision to create the opportunity successfully distract him with a Shadow Clone.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

think he has something "close" to a sensory system. the guy obviously can see and hear. and he doesn't have a brain though. it's a core? i forget exactly but i'm sure it "acts" like a brain. just because it acts like a sensory system or acts like a brain doesn't automaticly mean that it has the same conditions.

If it acts like a brain, then their is no reason to believe that it isn't susceptible to all the things that a brain is susceptible to. Again, you can't just assume whatever you want because it is convenient.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

in that case, you're saying that a puppet can get under the spell of genjutsu?
so kankuro's, lol figured his name out, puppets can fall under genjutsu? Sasori claimed to have turned himself into a puppet. same category as kankuro's puppets.

No, because they don't have any senses and are not at all alive. That's like saying I could trick a brick because I can trick an AI.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

except he has a core: the core processes data and it's what installs the personality. like a brain. but it's still not a brain. thats like saying a computer can fall under genjutsu.. just because it can process data.

If the computer had a chakra system, then maybe it might be possible. The thing is, he's nothing like a computer. Unless you are saying Naruto-world technology is so advanced that people can actually create an artificial system that thinks, sees, and possibly has other senses. Nothing about Sasori suggests that just because he is no longer in his original body, that he is anyway different than he was before in terms of senses and thoughts.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

sakura broke kabuto's genjutsu during the chunin exams.

Actually, she noticed it and dispelled it on herself before it took effect. We don't know if she could have gotten out once it had effected her.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

she had chakra control and was the only genin to do so.. i'd say that chakra control is crucial when under a genjutsu. even chiyo mentions the ways of beating a sharingan user. to snap out of genjutsu is to force the enemy's chakra out of you.

Shikamaru did it too. Just saying.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

the enemy's chakra messes with your sensors. it floods your body and they have control. but what if theres ONLY chakra in the host? nothing to manipulate.

Except that there isn't just chakra. There are sensors i.e. eyes and ears, as well as his core, which acts as his brain.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

again, sasori doesnt have anything to get manipulated. how does the guy see and hear? maybe the puppet has something that does it and attaching chakra to it makes it work? who knows why he can see and hear. regardless, sensors like in the human body, exactly like in the human body or in an animal, can't be made by hand.

Yeah, he does, I just said that. He clearly has sensors and for all we know, his sensory system is just as complex as a human's, since he makes puppets from human bodies.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

kakashi wasn't prepared for it. he got caught in it. he survives that proves that it makes it bearable.. but that isn't within this topic

Yes he was. That's why he closed his regular eye and told everyone not to look him in the eye. All you're showing is that once you get caught in a genjutsu, breaking out may not be easy just because you know you are in a genjutsu.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

i don't know what you are talking about on this one. seal a person away for eternity? i thought this was sasori vs itachi.

Susano'o's sword has the ability to seal away a person's soul or something to that effect and if that were used on Sasori, he would be sealed away. It's not really a hard concept to understand.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

very first episode, a higher ranked ninja vs whatever number of narutos.
naruto wins? cuz he had a freaking army. i'm not even saying within the naruto world either. you can easily put "numbers matter when fighting" in real life situations too. that's logic.

Yes, but we've also seen many times where numbers mean nothing. Naruto vs. Neji and Naruto vs. Kimimaro being prime examples, aside from what I already said. Obviously, if numbers did it all, Naruto would win every fight just by spamming clones.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

tell that to kakashi when he ran out of chakra to use kamui on a missile. when you die.. you lose. kakashi certainly had his chance against pain but he ran out of chakra.

I think you misunderstood my statement. I'm saying that just because Itachi has less chakra overall than Sasori does not guarantee he would lose, not that using all of your chakra won't kill you.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

let's try to stay within topic here.

I am. You see, given the relatively small amount of information we have to work with on these fighters, it is necessary to cite instances of precedent from their previous fights, as well as similar instances from other fights in this series. Using relevant points are necessary to show a line of reasoning and make people understand the basis of an argument. lrn2debate

[Pi3rcing_3ye]

The only way to justify whether or not genjutsu would work on a puppet...we would have to look at the process of getting caught in one. From what i know, or remember, genjutsu occurs when the user manipulates the victim's senses. whether it be controlling what he or she can see, feel, hear, etc. In order to manipulate a person's senses.. you manipulate sensors. sensors that can be found in living things. the cells send signals via nervous system to the brain and fires back to say "im feeling this...it's not fun" or "it's hot."

Itachi "stabs" Kakashi multiple times and Kakashi feels every inch of the blade. That's what got him to knock out.

Tsukoyomi is a genjutsu. It's a rather extreme genjutsu. It's not anything else. Same mechanics as a regular genjutsu so we can apply this.

Now, Sasori can't feel anything. He's a puppet and if he had sensors for feeling then it would show.

See where I'm going with this?

Let's say, for a minute, that you're right and he can fall into a genjutsu....then what? Sasori can't feel burning or stabbing. Tsukoyomi does nothing except distract him. but, tsukoyomi in itself takes up a lot of chakra, time, and focus. I know Itachi can definately catch Sasori. Clone or speed, whatever the case but Itachi can catch him. It will act as a distraction.... then what? Amaterasu? not possible. Itachi can't do both at the same time and that would show when Itachi caught Kakashi in Tsukoyomi. Kakashi would of been finished. All in all, Sasori wouldn't be affected by Tsukoyomi like it would a human being. No feelings = no pain. What then?

Granted, he can see and hear. but that's what he is limited to since he is a puppet. we don't know the complexity behind the reasons. it's gotta be chakra focused though. that much we can say. revolves around chakra. genjutsu doesn't manipulate chakra. If that were the case then Naruto would never be put into a genjutsu. seeing how his chakra is off the charts.

You can't say that the core is a brain. It's like a brain though and I agree that much.

As for the clone spam and not being a decisive factor. I don't dissagree with you. There are times when numbers don't win. So? The majority of the time it does end up being the deciding factor. It may not be every time but the majority of the time it's a big factor. Naruto wins every time if he spams the clones? Naruto usually always wins and theres always a clone that helped in some way.

We're not gonna come to an agreement here and that's fine.

I still hold to my opinion that Sasori ends up winning. He's chances are higher than that of Itachi. I don't think Itachi is weak either. It just happens that Sasori's advantage over Itachi are greater.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

The only way to justify whether or not genjutsu would work on a puppet...we would have to look at the process of getting caught in one. From what i know, or remember, genjutsu occurs when the user manipulates the victim's senses. whether it be controlling what he or she can see, feel, hear, etc. In order to manipulate a person's senses.. you manipulate sensors. sensors that can be found in living things. the cells send signals via nervous system to the brain and fires back to say "im feeling this...it's not fun" or "it's hot."

actually from my understanding genjutsu manipulates things directly from the brain. it tells the brain "hot" "ouch" or what have you. sasori certainly has something that works like a brain, so i still don't see a reason why it wouldn't work

[quote=Pi3rcing_3ye;1165207tsukoyomi in itself takes up a lot of time[/QUOTE]

no it doesn't. tsukuyomi is instant. thats why escape is normally impossible, because it happens ina moment. the moment you are caught in it, its full effects happen. sasuke used some special trick to do it involving sharingan or the curse mark or something.

that's the reason its so dangerous. because theres no tiem to break out and the caster spends hours/days/weeks torturing you in an instant. imagine days of pain all at once.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

I know Itachi can definately catch Sasori. Clone or speed, whatever the case but Itachi can catch him. It will act as a distraction.... then what? Amaterasu? not possible. Itachi can't do both at the same time and that would show when Itachi caught Kakashi in Tsukoyomi. Kakashi would of been finished.

while ia gree he can't do both at the same time (though more because there isn't time since tsukuyomi is instant than anything else) thats a bad example since itachi didnt want to kill kakashi in the first palce. remeber that he wasjust playing a part, he had always beena loyal leaf ninja in disguise. not to mention a pacifist. even kakashi admitted after tsukuyomi that "why didnt he just kill me? if he wanted too, he could have." so saying he can't do something based on the fact that kakashi is alive is silly

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

All in all, Sasori wouldn't be affected by Tsukoyomi like it would a human being. No feelings = no pain. What then?

but you still can't prove he can't feel pain.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

Granted, he can see and hear. but that's what he is limited to since he is a puppet. we don't know the complexity behind the reasons. it's gotta be chakra focused though. that much we can say. revolves around chakra. genjutsu doesn't manipulate chakra. If that were the case then Naruto would never be put into a genjutsu. seeing how his chakra is off the charts.

exactly, we dont know. we don't know so you auto assume it doesn't work. that's silly. and of course genjutsu effects the chakra. it affects the chakra in the brain to manipulate the senses, thats why disrupting the flow of your chakra (by stopping the flow and reversing it, or having an ally force their chakra into you) releases you from genjutsu

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

You can't say that the core is a brain. It's like a brain though and I agree that much.

no one said it IS a brain. but it fufills the role of the brain. it allows him to move, think, see, hear, speak, etc

chakra
a brain substitute
senses

all the requirements for genjutsu to effect you

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

As for the clone spam and not being a decisive factor. I don't dissagree with you. There are times when numbers don't win. So? The majority of the time it does end up being the deciding factor. It may not be every time but the majority of the time it's a big factor. Naruto wins every time if he spams the clones? Naruto usually always wins and theres always a clone that helped in some way.

and no one is denying that sasori's numbers aren't going to be helpful. the point is that numbers farf rom guarantee anything. numbers help, but they aren't everything.

Originally Posted by Pi3rcing_3ye

I still hold to my opinion that Sasori ends up winning. He's chances are higher than that of Itachi. I don't think Itachi is weak either. It just happens that Sasori's advantage over Itachi are greater.

he can torch a fairly large area with amaterasu. he used up chakra, yes, but sasori at the very least is down a LOT of puppets. and itachi is still in fighting shape, he used amaterasu several times against sasuke, and that was after tsukuyomi, and after even tsu and ama, he was still able to manage susanoo.

[The Deck Builder]

I will get back to you on your still remaining shot logic looks like I'm going to have to break your reply to me down to the point where I'm explaining the meaning of every word which may take a while in my busy lifestyle but will take the time out I don't mind.

By the way if you thought you won the naruto vs sasuke thread your logic and judgement is extremely shot.

You were a slave to my thread and every post you posted was adding to my end goal you got deceived.

This is also known as "Misdirection".

Oh Hikari Link you make me smile.

[codecatx5]

Originally Posted by The Deck Builder

I will get back to you on your still remaining shot logic looks like I'm going to have to break your reply to me down to the point where I'm explaining the meaning of every word which may take a while in my busy lifestyle but will take the time out I don't mind.

By the way if you thought you won the naruto vs sasuke thread your logic and judgement is extremely shot.

You were a slave to my thread and every post you posted was adding to my end goal you got deceived.

This is also known as "Misdirection".

Oh Hikari Link you make me smile.

Your an idiot.

[hahonryuu]

Originally Posted by The Deck Builder

I will get back to you on your still remaining shot logic looks like I'm going to have to break your reply to me down to the point where I'm explaining the meaning of every word which may take a while in my busy lifestyle but will take the time out I don't mind.

By the way if you thought you won the naruto vs sasuke thread your logic and judgement is extremely shot.

You were a slave to my thread and every post you posted was adding to my end goal you got deceived.

This is also known as "Misdirection".

Oh Hikari Link you make me smile.

What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. May god have mercy on your soul.