Makin the Game Better - From Bruce n Jason - Page 3 - Naruto

Hiei_Zero · #21 10-21-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsu Kiyo Me

Let's take a look at the playable Gaara:

Gaara TN (which was errata'd to be good but not stellar like it is now)
Gaara Sand Barrier (Solid 2 drop option but 2 drop Gaaras don't have access to Wind's best jutsus)
Gaara Convo (Shukaku is good but not amazing)
Gaara IP (Banned in this format)
Gaara 5 Drop Presence (Good option but completely overshadowed by Sasori as Winds 5 drop)
Gaara Insanity

Did I miss anything that isn't completely power creeped? (Not saying that to be mean, I'm seriously asking if I missed any big contenders. These are the only ones I see) Insanity's effect doesn't work on Chakra or Discard so basically he sets you back a turn to draw 2.
(Also his lack of support IS a big deal. Gaara was good because of his +1, Good Jutsu pool, 5 Combat, and he had decent support. Isanity is basically a worse Might Guy and we all know how many times he shows up in a tier 1 deck. Hell I'd venture Gai has better jutsu too, just he can't search like Gaara can.) He can use any jutsu but lets be honest the only good Gaara jutsu are:
-Levitation
-Coffin (SR and Coils)
-Tomb
-Blade
-Tsunami
-1 of Great Burial

Most of those aren't worth building a whole deck around without the search. The +1 is what makes Gaara decks Gaara. Unlike Kakashi, Gaara's jutsu don't win games all by themselves. It takes 3 or 4 to end a game. And that's why you need the swarm.

The only really good replacement is Insanity that I can see. And it takes a situational Tier 1 deck to a solid Tier 2. Your only option to play Tier 1 Wind is Control where as the other elements still have multiple ways to play.

Also note that Formation of Sand, and the 5th Kazekage have a place on that list. All of those are playable but you will never use them, Because IP exists. There are only 2 ways of balancing a game and removing overpowered cards you make people too afraid to use them or remove them. This is removing him. The game should be more fun in addition to more balanced.

Tsu Kiyo Me · #22 10-21-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinalValkyrie

Do recall a Wind deck won the Sannin without a Gaara IP in the deck.

So your statement is null and void. Wind has PLENTY other options than just Over 9k. Especially now with EA out.

Correct. And in our test games against Thomas, the IP build won out against it. The IP build that we played used IP and it did better than his. The bane of the deck was opting to play Decision x 3 over One Monring like originally planned. Andrew, myself....and I believe even Josh had trouble hitting Decision all day. Thomas however had no such problems, and thus, won out. Almost every match loss I had was based purely on not being able to use the dead Decision in my hand. Andrew (Zero) will also vouch for it.

And the problem with Gaara IP is that it is a 1 Ninja deck. Don't draw Gaara, you lose.

Naruto has comparable jutsu to Gaara IP (Joe got 2nd at the Sannin with a Naruto jutsu based deck.) But good Narutos can't search. The one that can search lacks support so it can't be a back ninja. You need both for it to be a good type.

Outside of DFC & CL (And that's only cause Naruto is untouchable), there are no character specific jutsu decks that are good. Gaara was the exception. Cutting it puts it in league with all the other
tier 2~3 character jutsu decks (Chidori Decks, Taijutsu Decks, Byakugan Decks). Wind doesn't need Gaara IP. But it puts it wayyyyyyyy back especially if you're going to remove Kankuro.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiei_Zero

Also note that Formation of Sand, and the 5th Kazekage have a place on that list. All of those are playable but you will never use them, Because IP exists. There are only 2 ways of balancing a game and removing overpowered cards you make people too afraid to use them or remove them. This is removing him. The game should be more fun in addition to more balanced.

I won't play Form of Sand because Chiyo exists because she can generate hand advantage with powerful jutsu and puppets.
I won't play 5th Kazekage because Sasori exists, as I already said.

FinalValkyrie · #23 10-21-2009, 07:37 PM

Its two sides of the spectrum. If we do nothing, he stays overpowered. And if we get rid of him, Gaara decks could possibly go by the wayside.

So which is the correct route? Maybe a decent errata to him, like having to pay a chakra for his effect, or maybe if he only gets it on the Block.

kirbyrocks101 · #24 10-21-2009, 07:39 PM

I think you should hafta pay 1 wind for his effect,cuz of effect name and what not

also,why wouldn't you play formation of sand with puppets?
kank/black ant shenanigans is fun and pro

FinalValkyrie · #25 10-21-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirbyrocks101

I think you should hafta pay 1 wind for his effect,cuz of effect name and what not

also,why wouldn't you play formation of sand with puppets?
kank/black ant shenanigans is fun and pro

This guy, he knows.

Thinking outside the box for new ideas, thats what banlists are for.

Pain11 · #26 10-21-2009, 07:43 PM