the usual

[spiritomb]

Originally Posted by SharinganHeir

A "Ninja card" is not in play and therefore cannot be discarded due to damage received in the showdown.

Then how the______ does the cards I c-linked get their effects. I'm done with sharinganheir his argument is the most ludicrous I've heard.

[VSA]

So Spiritomb, I answered both questions in two ways:

One was concisely, and the other at length.

You ignored both apparently, so I'll put it this way: I spoke with the mods last night about it, and he agreed with my ruling assessments. So can you kindly take your suppositions and shove them? I proved you wrong at each turn so you bring up different points that have no relevance to the issue at hand.

A mission card ceases to be a mission card once it resolves, Kiba only negates Permanent missions, and thus cannot target things on the chain. Hayate Gekko and Pakkun are the prime examples of the difference between what you want to do and how the game actually works.

On the ninja effect being dealt damage: Unless the modifier of "When ~ is discarded due to some special condition" is there, it WILL NOT RESOLVE. Even Alex said so. The two cards you have fall under that special rule, as they have "When this Ninja is discarded due to showdown" which is a special modifier to the effect. If a ninja such as Dangerous Chakra Naruto is straight up killed, he will NOT resolve as he is not IN PLAY for the effect to resolve. You CANNOT be this ignorant, can you?

In the end, quit it.

[spiritomb]

Originally Posted by VSA

So Spiritomb, I answered both questions in two ways:

One was concisely, and the other at length.

You ignored both apparently, so I'll put it this way: I spoke with the mods last night about it, and he agreed with my ruling assessments. So can you kindly take your suppositions and shove them? I proved you wrong at each turn so you bring up different points that have no relevance to the issue at hand.
actually I answered all parts indirectly via others questions. In this instance there was no reaqson to be repetitive.
A mission card ceases to be a mission once it resolves, Kiba only negates Permanent missions, and thus cannot target things on the chain. Hayate Gekko and Pakkun are the prime examples of the difference between what you want to do and how the game actually works.
when was the rule made that a permanent mission isn't a mission?
On the ninja effect being dealt damage: Unless the modifier of "When ~ is discarded due to some special condition" is there, it WILL NOT RESOLVE. Even Alex said so. The two cards you have fall under that special rule, as they have "When this Ninja is discarded due to showdown" which is a special modifier to the effect. If a ninja such as Dangerous Chakra Naruto is straight up killed, he will NOT resolve as he is not IN PLAY for the effect to resolve. You CANNOT be this ignorant, can you?
Why didn't you or anyone say that in the first place?
In the end, quit it.

read bold. Also I'll quit when the other question gets answered and the Naruto wild rage one gets answered in q+a.

[VSA]

I'll just ignore both, since you cannot seem the grasp the differences in language on how cards are written. I edited the post so you can understand a little more easily.

[kyuubi rasengan]

Originally Posted by WizKid

This seems like a lot of people are learning from him asking this question.

Yes but at the cost of feeding the troll

[spiritomb]

Originally Posted by VSA

I'll just ignore both, since you cannot seem the grasp the differences in language on how cards are written. I edited the post so you can understand a little more easily.

Weird, I'm look at aqd and it says it is a permanent mission also in the top left hand corner it says it's a mission.

[Earthbullet]

Originally Posted by spiritomb

And if the ninja receives damage 2 due to the showdown it gets discarded by game mechanic.

there has always been an exception on ninja effects that cause the ninja to be removed from play as part of their cost or effect. when this ninja is discarded due to the showdown all this means is that the result of the showdown caused this ninja to be discarded triggering its effect if you dont think these work how do you think inherit or revitalize works -_-

[VSA]

Originally Posted by spiritomb

Weird, I'm look at aqd and it says it is a permanent mission also in the top left hand corner it says it's a mission.

I also like how you think a Permanent Mission is a mission before it resolves.

We'll take a look at Pakkun

And your card

Kiba

Can you tell me the difference between the two cards? No? I'll lay it out in plain english for ya:

Pakkun says:
[Blocker | Mission] (0): Negate and discard target Mission. At the end of this turn, discard this Ninja.

Kiba says:
[Attacker | Mission] (1): If you control another Fire Ninja, remove a coin from target Permanent Mission, then place a -1/-1 coin on target Ninja. Then, if you control another Lightning Ninja, negate that Mission's effect text during this turn.

Now, there are a few key differences between these two cards. The first is how they negate, one costs nothing and the other costs one. One of them has ninja requirements it needs to meet to perform its effect.

So I'll break this down step by step for you.

Say my opponent plays Sakura's Decision. If I have Pakkun in play, the chain will go down like this:

Player 1: Put Sakura's Decision on the chain, target is Sakura Haruno [A Double Personality], pay hand cost.
Player 2: Chain with Pakkun
Player 1: I have no response
Player 2: Pakkun resolves, negating and discarding Sakura's decision.

Now, if I have Kiba in play, and my opponent has Appearance of Unknown Rivals in play, the chain will go down like this:

Player 1: Activate Kiba, check for conditional modifiers, find a Lightning and a Fire ninja (irrelevant on who they are).
Player 2: I have no response
Player 1: Kiba resolves, removing a token from Appearance of Unknown Rivals and negating it's effect text.

Now in both of those situations a simple set of conditions was met:
Pakkun targeted a misison an opponent was playing (in this case Sakura's decision) and Kiba targeted a mission already resolved and in play (in this case Appearence of Unknown Rivals).

Now the difference between those two is Pakkun doesn't care what type of mission is being played, as he straight up negated it. Kiba on the other hand DOES care as it HAS to be a permanent mission to be able to resolve his effect, and until a mission is put on the chain successfully it has no coins. So even if you chain to the casting of A Quiet Day with Kiba, until Kiba has resolved, the mission will not have coins.

This is explain in Mr. Wheats 2009 rules post which isn't been superseded by anyone, and is still valid, here: Rule you're looking for.

To go deeper than that, this is exactly how a chain involving Kiba and A Quiet Day would resolve:

Player 1 is the attacker
Player 2 is the blocker

Player 1: I deploy Ink Leech, put its effect on the chain.
Player 2: I chain with A Quiet Day.
Player 1: I chain with Kiba.
Player 2: I do not have any permanent missions in play, so I'm okay with this.
Player 1: Wait what? Kiba should negate A Quiet day, right?
Player 2: If you look at how a mission resolves itself, you'd see that it doesn't gain coins until this chain resolves, here how that works:
I Declared my card
I verified any requirements (there are none)
I determined my hand cost (An earth card)
I paid my cost
I determined my targets (there are none).
I wait for you to respond to me, since you chained to it.

Had you NOT chained to it, I would go to resolve the mission, after which I follow these steps:
I rechecked all my requirements (there are none)
I rechecked whether or not the mission targets (it doesn't)
I determine the number of coins to be put on a mission if it's permanent (1)
I placed my coin
When all of this has happened, I apply the effect of my mission
Player 1: So the mission isn't actually a permanent until its effect has been applied?
Player 2: That's correct, while on the chain, it has no effect, other than being a mission.

Spiritomb, until a mission like A Quiet Day or Appearance of Unknown Rivals resolves, it has no tokens and cannot be effected by Kiba. So your supposition that you're able to negate its effect before it hits play is wrong, and even more, you cannot target it because it doesn't become a permanent mission until it resolves, and by that point, your Kiba has already resolved (if you chained it) or will not have an effect after A Quiet Day resolves.

If you'd like I can ask Tylar directly about it, but I know for a fact that he'll give the same response.

[SharinganHeir]

Originally Posted by spiritomb

Then how the______ does the cards I c-linked get their effects. I'm done with sharinganheir his argument is the most ludicrous I've heard.

Are you aware that there is a difference between the terms "Ninja" and "Ninja card"?

"Ninja" refers to a card that is in play (meaning it is either in the village or battlefield).

"Ninja card" refers to a card that is out of play (meaning it is in your hand, deck, discard pile, chakra area, reinforcement deck or currently removed from the game).

Hinata Hyuga (Childhood) says "Valid: When this Ninja is discarded due to the Showdown, move it to your Chakra area instead. In that case, randomly discard 1 card from your opponent's hand." I'll break it down for you:

Valid"
This effect will work whether the ninja is healthy or injured leading up to the trigger.

When this Ninja
"When" is one of the signs of a trigger effect
"Ninja" tells you she has to be in play before the effect triggers

is discarded due to the Showdown,
This gives you the timing of the trigger: the effect triggers when your in play ninja is discarded due to the showdown and moves to the discard pile

move it to your Chakra area instead.
Should be self explanitory: the card goes to your chakra area.

In that case, randomly discard 1 card from your opponent's hand.
"In that case" means this part of the effect will only happen if hinata ended up in your chakra due to the first part of the effect. then you fisnish the effect.


Shikamaru Nara says "Valid: When this Ninja is discarded due to the Showdown, you can search your Deck for 1 Permanent Mission card, reveal it, and move it to your hand. Then, shuffle your Deck." And the breakdown:

Valid"
This effect will work whether the ninja is healthy or injured leading up to the trigger.

When this Ninja
"When" is one of the signs of a trigger effect
"Ninja" tells you he has to be in play before the effect triggers

is discarded due to the Showdown,
This gives you the timing of the trigger: the effect triggers when your in play ninja is discarded due to the showdown and moves to the discard pile

you can search your Deck for 1 Permanent Mission card, reveal it, and move it to your hand. Then, shuffle your Deck.
self explanatory.


Naruto Uzumaki says "Valid: When this Ninja receives any Damage or is injured, move the top 2 cards of your Deck to your Chakra area." His breakdown is different:

Valid:
his purpose for being valid is so that his effect will work when he changes from healthy to injured. If you had an effect that prevented him from being removed from play due to damage, his effect would also work while he is injured before the effect tirggers. If he did not say "Valid", his effect would never work because before the effect is added to the chain, he is healthy and after it resolves he is injured.

When this Ninja
"When" is one of the signs of a trigger effect
"Ninja" tells you he has to be in play before the effect triggers

receives any Damage or is injured
This is the timing of the trigger. Any time Naruto is injured or receives damage, his effect will attempt to kick in. When Naruto is healthy and receives 1 damage or is injured, he will be in injured status when his effect resolves. When Naruto is injured and receives 1+ damage or is healthy and receives 2+ damage, he will be dead and discarded when his effect attempts to resolve. Since he is no longer in play, the effect fails.

move the top 2 cards of your Deck to your Chakra area
the actual effect that takes place as long as Naruto is still in play when his effect resolves.

In case it isn't clear, when I say trigger, I am referring to an effect that is placed on the chain in response to 1 or more specific events taking place.

[spiritomb]

*vsa Let me put it this way, I'm chaining kiba with no other fire ninjas in play. Stop obsessing on those coins. My questions have never had anything to do with coins. Now answer.

Also where is the rule that a permanent mission isn't a permanent mission on a chain.