the usual

[egosumsolus]

Originally Posted by VSA

How can you target a mission that hasn't resolved yet with Kiba? Seriously how can you? He targets a mission that has resolved, and since A Quiet Day hasn't resolved, it cannot be affected by him, going back to "Negate the target" vs "Negate the text."

How can you negate the text of a mission that hasn't resolved yet? Explain that first please.

Because Kiba doesn't require the Mission to be in play. Just as New Orders doesn't either. New Orders can Negate a Mission on the Chain or a Mission that is in play, either or.

Gameru on the other hand cannot target and be used against New Orders or A Quiet Day because Gameru requires that Mission be fully resolved and "in-play." Hina, on the other hand, just required the target to be a Mission - it did not have to be a Mission "in-play," it simply could be a Mission on the Chain because a Mission Card IS a Mission on the Chain.

Back to Kiba. No where at all, anywhere, top to bottom, left to right, does Kiba stipulate that the Mission he is targeting has to be "in-play" i.e. resolved, only that it be a "Mission," which would include but not be limited to, Missions on the Chain. Kiba's effect then resolves and remains for the remainder of the turn, as his effect stipulates. So when that Mission (AQD) does resolve and its effect would normally then be applied, it is "Negated during this turn."

[spiritomb]

Originally Posted by VSA

How can you target a mission that hasn't resolved yet with Kiba? Seriously how can you? He targets a mission that has resolved, and since A Quiet Day hasn't resolved, it cannot be affected by him, going back to "Negate the target" vs "Negate the text."

How can you negate the text of a mission that hasn't resolved yet? Explain that first please.

Where does it say target a resolved mission. It says it "targets" a mission. And neither VSA nor Shino's dad nor Tylar nor anyone else has been able to disprove that. We have backed this up with the text of the card itself. If someone doesn't like it they could complain to get the text errata'd. Though that would still leave the supposed problem that theword counter is part of aqd's text. That's preposterous by itself.

[shido]

Originally Posted by egosumsolus

I can read nutrition facts so I'm not 300+lbs. But anyway. I can and did read. Nothing there has any counter relevance to my argument at all.

Here is Kiba's Effect Text:
[Attacker | Mission]
(1): If you control another Fire Ninja, remove a coin from target Permanent Mission, then place a -1/-1 coin on target Ninja. Then, if you control another Lightning Ninja, negate that Mission's effect text during this turn.

Here is a fun ruling about "During this Turn" effects I just had answered:

[url]http://www.bandai.com/naruto/showthread.php?t=100041[/url]

So, let me summarize my argument, since it is obvious you did not read my original post made on page 3.

Kiba's ONLY requirement to be activated for his Negation is "another Lightning Ninja." The Mission targeted itself, only has 1 requirement, to be a Permanent. It does not require that the Mission itself be considered "in-play." There is a major difference between "in-play" i.e. resolved and not "in-play" i.e. still on the Chain. After reading MJM's last post, I cannot stress this enough, nowhere does Kiba require the Mission to be "in-play," only that it is a Permanent Mission. This important difference between "in-play" and not "in-play" is noted on this ruling here:

[url]http://www.bandai.com/naruto/showthread.php?t=97087[/url]

So the scenario of play I give is:
I have a Lightning Ninja and Kiba on the field.
Me: Deploy Random NinjaX.
You: Chain to Deployment with A Quiet Day.
Me: Chain to A Quiet Day with Kiba. (I have met all requirements of both activating Kiba and Targeting).
You: Pass
Me: Pass

Kiba resolves and sets up a condition that regardless of whatever the target's effect text is/was, it is negated during the entire turn.

(1): If you control another Fire Ninja, remove a coin from target Permanent Mission, then place a -1/-1 coin on target Ninja. Then, if you control another Lightning Ninja, negate that Mission's effect text during this turn.


Wouldn't u have to activate the first part of the effect of removing the coin with a fire ninja on field to get te second effect with the lightning since it says target THAT mission?? If u skip the part of removing the coin and only have lightning how does the effect know what THAT mission is?

[spiritomb]

Originally Posted by shido

(1): If you control another Fire Ninja, remove a coin from target Permanent Mission, then place a -1/-1 coin on target Ninja. Then, if you control another Lightning Ninja, negate that Mission's effect text during this turn.


Wouldn't u have to activate the first part of the effect of removing the coin with a fire ninja on field to get te second effect with the lightning since it says target THAT mission?? If u skip the part of removing the coin and only have lightning how does the effect know what THAT mission is?

Cause u targeted it and did as much as you could.

[egosumsolus]

Originally Posted by shido

(1): If you control another Fire Ninja, remove a coin from target Permanent Mission, then place a -1/-1 coin on target Ninja. Then, if you control another Lightning Ninja, negate that Mission's effect text during this turn.


Wouldn't u have to activate the first part of the effect of removing the coin with a fire ninja on field to get te second effect with the lightning since it says target THAT mission?? If u skip the part of removing the coin and only have lightning how does the effect know what THAT mission is?

That's honestly been asked multiple times to people in my Meta, including our Meijins. Ultimately, their/our conclusion was that Kiba was just another of the many very poorly worded cards designed by Tylar.

To fix this situation, back on the topic at hand, I agree with Spiritomb that an errata would be an easy fix. If Kiba's Lightning effect stated, "negate that in-play Mission's effect text during this turn," it would solve the whole issue and make the technical wording in proper alignment with cards like Gameru/Hina, and other precedents.

[MJM]

Originally Posted by spiritomb

1). If you don't know what the word lethal means don't post here. You all knew what I meant by token nevertheless you guys argued that too.
2.) The note above was resolved 5 pages ago. Keep up.

That's not what I said at all. I said there is no word "lethal" in this game. Stop using terms that are not in this game when you try to argue something. I find it hilarious that you're telling me to keep up when you're the one that doesn't know anything about rules. Also, I'm aware that ruling was resolved, I was addressing the fact that you claimed it was a well constructed question.

[spiritomb]

↑though that would be fine(an errata) it would be the lazy way. Obvious many major players in this game still don't know how this instance would work. This type of problem isn't gonna fix itself. Some better maintenance of this game and obviously better education of this game would help. Some people may also have to relearn English.

[world of pein]

Originally Posted by MJM

That's not what I said at all. I said there is no word "lethal" in this game. Stop using terms that are not in this game when you try to argue something. I find it hilarious that you're telling me to keep up when you're the one that doesn't know anything about rules. Also, I'm aware that ruling was resolved, I was addressing the fact that you claimed it was a well constructed question.

lethal in the card game

[shido]

Originally Posted by egosumsolus

That's honestly been asked multiple times to people in my Meta, including our Meijins. Ultimately, their/our conclusion was that Kiba was just another of the many very poorly worded cards designed by Tylar.

To fix this situation, back on the topic at hand, I agree with Spiritomb that an errata would be an easy fix. If Kiba's Lightning effect stated, "negate that in-play Mission's effect text during this turn," it would solve the whole issue and make the technical wording in proper alignment with cards like Gameru/Hina, and other precedents.

So untill it is errata as such shouldnt this effect only matter at this point if you have a fire and a lightning ninja on field with kiba since as its worded right now the second part of the effect wouldn't activate properly if there is only a lightning card since there is no effect targeting a mission with te second part of the effect

[MJM]

Originally Posted by world of pein

lethal in the card game

You're hilarious.