the usual

[zbkillaz]

I fold.........

[egosumsolus]

Originally Posted by VSA

And I'm waiting on you to prove your point beyond just what two players say. I've given empirical proof, you haven't.

I've given empirical proof. Plenty of it.

[VSA]

Originally Posted by egosumsolus

I've given empirical proof. Plenty of it.

Backed by moderators and written out rules? I've seen none of that, just you twisting the game to fit how you want.

[egosumsolus]

Originally Posted by Shino'sDad

Alright, so this is why Kiba doesn't work like that.


If you will recall , he was ruled that he cannot negate a Mission on the chain, because the Mission isn't an effect, but a card. In other words, you could not target the effect of the Mission while is was being played.

Manda and Missions ruling

Now what does this have to do at all with Kiba? Well, Kiba negates the effect text of a Permanent Mission. Now, you mentioned other cards such as New Orders and Pakkun, who negate and discard Missions. The difference is, and you'll have to follow me closely on this one, is that New Orders and Pakkun are Not negating the effect of the Mission, they are negating the Mission itself. The reason it tells you to "Negate and Discard" is because the Discard is telling you where it goes after it is negated. This is similar to the reason why Jutsu are "Negated and [blank]". Toad Mouth Trap just negates the Jutsu, which means it falls of the chain, and goes to Chakra, because it isn't specified where it goes. Sharingan Eye says "Negate and Remove from Game", because it is telling you "Negate this card off the chain, and RFG it." If a Jutsu could just be knocked off the chain, why would they have to say Negate? Why couldn't the cards just read "Move the target to Chakra" or "Discard the target." The point is, Kiba negates the effect text of the Permanent Mission it targets, and you can't negate the effect Text of a Mission on the chain, just the card itself.

Ah, this was far superior to any other previous explanation on the last 11 pages. I understand your point. My only counter argument is one I've been having with Saul on FB, and that is the last part of Kiba which says "during this turn."

I accept and understand that a Mission on the Chain does not have an effect as of yet, however, since it is a legal and valid target for Kiba's effect, why would Kiba not resolve, Negate the targeted permanent missions effect which it has none, and then require that card be negated for the remainder of the turn as Kiba stipulates? Doesn't Kiba set up a condition where regardless of what effect text is on the mission or when that mission's effect is intended to be resolved and applied, that it is negated anyway because it is within the confines of that turn?

[egosumsolus]

Originally Posted by VSA

Backed by moderators and written out rules? I've seen none of that, just you twisting the game to fit how you want.

Then you are far worse at reading that I supposed. If you go look at Page 3 and my multiple posts afterwards, there are link after link after link of rules citations made by either Andy or Tylar.

[kyuubi rasengan]

Mods this has gone on long enough. Can we get a lock?

[spiritomb]

My post above says, kiba is looking for effect text while manda is looking for an effect. Also if your going to quote something. Make sure that vacdeil's links work. I believe they're before this website got its URL changed.

Originally Posted by Shino'sDad

Alright, so this is why Kiba doesn't work like that.


If you will recall , he was ruled that he cannot negate a Mission on the chain, because the Mission isn't an effect, but a card. In other words, you could not target the effect of the Mission while is was being played.

Manda and Missions ruling

Now what does this have to do at all with Kiba? Well, Kiba negates the effect text of a Permanent Mission. Now, you mentioned other cards such as New Orders and Pakkun, who negate and discard Missions. The difference is, and you'll have to follow me closely on this one, is that New Orders and Pakkun are Not negating the effect of the Mission, they are negating the Mission itself. The reason it tells you to "Negate and Discard" is because the Discard is telling you where it goes after it is negated. This is similar to the reason why Jutsu are "Negated and [blank]". Toad Mouth Trap just negates the Jutsu, which means it falls of the chain, and goes to Chakra, because it isn't specified where it goes. Sharingan Eye says "Negate and Remove from Game", because it is telling you "Negate this card off the chain, and RFG it." If a Jutsu could just be knocked off the chain, why would they have to say Negate? Why couldn't the cards just read "Move the target to Chakra" or "Discard the target." The point is, Kiba negates the effect text of the Permanent Mission it targets, and you can't negate the effect Text of a Mission on the chain, just the card itself.

[MJM]

How much of an ignoramus can you be? First of all, before you quote something, make sure you know how to post properly. Secondly, you have no room to talk about broken links. Thirdly, you know the URL changed from "Bandaicg" to "Bandai", all you have to do is delete two characters. As for the actual topic at hand, it's the same concept.

[spiritomb]

Originally Posted by MJM

How much of an ignoramus can you be? First of all, before you quote something, make sure you know how to post properly. Secondly, you have no room to talk about broken links. Thirdly, you know the URL changed from "Bandaicg" to "Bandai", all you have to do is delete two characters. As for as the actual topic at hand, it's the same concept.

No one told me that's how to fix those links, so how was I supposed to know?

When was it posted that it was the same concept?

Finally my touch screen is not ergonomically convenient. So the letters a,s,z,x,c,v,b,n,m,l,i,o, and the space button tend to trigger unwantingly. Nor does my phone recognize the word "Manda "

[MJM]

Originally Posted by spiritomb

When was it posted that it was the same concept?

You couldn't come to that conclusion yourself? Even though he explained the whole thing?