Naruto 618

[SharinganHeir]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

again, I already mentioned the seal possibility. And, yet again, the forest doesn't matter. Madara's mastery of mokuten is on the same level as the firsts, because both of them have infinite chakra, due to edo tensei.

My entire original point was, it is stupid to think that IF they fought madara, it would be an easy victory. And to that end, it seems we agree.

I never implied it would be easy. I'm sure it would be a lengthy battle. But it's 1 immortal vs. 4 immortals. Eventually the 4 have to have the advantage, even against Rinnegan, EMS, and Mokuton. Even if he started creating paths, if naruto can handle all 6, those 4 definitely could. The paths wouldn't be immortal.

I don't think anyone can ever really be on the same level as Hashirama when it comes to using wood style. No one else was born with the ability. No one (except Yamato, who is clearly and admittedly not at the same level as Hashirama) has the the ability throughout their entire ninja career.

I have a question that no one can really answer. Why did edo tensei bring Madara back in his prime but bring Sarutobi back as an old man? Both died as wrinkled old men. Shouldn't they both come back wrinkled old men or both come back youthful?

[Tagrineth]

Sidenote: Kabuto is right proper f-!ked now. Anyone else catch the bit about Orochimaru taking back his power?

I think the thing with Madara is that he was specifically restored to his prime as a special case rather than just straight resurrected.

[Sai'ix Renkai]

Originally Posted by Tagrineth

Sidenote: Kabuto is right proper f-!ked now. Anyone else catch the bit about Orochimaru taking back his power?

I think the thing with Madara is that he was specifically restored to his prime as a special case rather than just straight resurrected.

Kabuto has been. He is stuck in an infinite loop until he admits his failure, which his personality won't allow because he can't bring shame to Orochimaru.

[Chidori]

Originally Posted by SharinganHeir

I have a question that no one can really answer. Why did edo tensei bring Madara back in his prime but bring Sarutobi back as an old man? Both died as wrinkled old men. Shouldn't they both come back wrinkled old men or both come back youthful?

Unless it has to do with the material used (genetic or whatever). Like cells obtained from young Madara gives you youthful edo tensei Madara.
The real question no one can answer about edo tensei is... their clothes!!!! Why don't they reanimate with leisure suits or something?

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by SharinganHeir

I never implied it would be easy. I'm sure it would be a lengthy battle. But it's 1 immortal vs. 4 immortals. Eventually the 4 have to have the advantage, even against Rinnegan, EMS, and Mokuton. Even if he started creating paths, if naruto can handle all 6, those 4 definitely could. The paths wouldn't be immortal.

I don't think anyone can ever really be on the same level as Hashirama when it comes to using wood style. No one else was born with the ability. No one (except Yamato, who is clearly and admittedly not at the same level as Hashirama) has the the ability throughout their entire ninja career.

1st bold. again, unless they seal him with reaper death seal, they can't win. he can't be defeated in combat, because he's immortal. If they can use reaper death seal, then yes, they can win. I already said this. i've had to point this out 3 times now at least. It shouldn't be this complicated.

2nd bold. naruto is SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than any of the previous kage, probably more than the 1st and 2nd combined quite honestly with all his hax. So even if they could, the statement isn't exactly logical.

3rd bold. how is that relevant at all? Sasuke is better with raikiri/chidori than kakashi is, and kakashi is the one who invented it. Kankuro is just as good with puppets as sasori, and he's had far less time to practice. There are other examples. the point is, Madara can create just as much forest as the 1st can. the 1st cannot be better at it just because he was "born with the abililty". That isn't how it works.

[SharinganHeir]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

1st bold. again, unless they seal him with reaper death seal, they can't win. he can't be defeated in combat, because he's immortal. If they can use reaper death seal, then yes, they can win. I already said this. i've had to point this out 3 times now at least. It shouldn't be this complicated.

1. Reaper Death Seal isn't the only sealing technique that can stop edo tensei.
2. Quit making a big deal about you constantly repeating yourself. I saw it every time and it's getting old.
3. I was making a sarcastic remark because you already mentioned sealing multiple times.
4. I am merely making the point that in a never ending 4 on 1 battle, the 4 have the advantage despite all involved being immortal.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

2nd bold. naruto is SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than any of the previous kage, probably more than the 1st and 2nd combined quite honestly with all his hax. So even if they could, the statement isn't exactly logical.

What part was illogical? Naruto defeated the 6 paths of pain single handed. 4 ninjas who are more skilled and experienced than naruto are together. If they had to fight the 6 paths of pain, they would be able to defeat them like Naruto did. Naruto has surpassed them in power, yes, but he has a long way to go in other areas. I think any one of those 4 could still beat him (without immortality).

Originally Posted by Nejifan

3rd bold. how is that relevant at all? Sasuke is better with raikiri/chidori than kakashi is, and kakashi is the one who invented it. Kankuro is just as good with puppets as sasori, and he's had far less time to practice. There are other examples.

None of those examples are similar at all. Wood Style is a Kekkei Genkai. That means it has to be in your blood. I don't see Someone with altered DNA being as skilled as someone who was actually born with the technique. Granted Madara is immensely powerful and skillful, but purely looking at wood style alone, I don't believe he can possibly be as skilled as Hashirama. This is an opinion. You don't have to agree with it, but I haven't seen anything in the manga to disprove it. The only evidence so far is Yamato (who tilts the scale in my favor), Danzo (who tilts the scale in my favor; he had almost no control at all) and Madara (who we are currently arguing about).

Originally Posted by Nejifan

the point is, Madara can create just as much forest as the 1st can. the 1st cannot be better at it just because he was "born with the abililty".

You don't know that. We haven't seen them compete. There is no proof that either person could grow the tallest tree, grow the most trees, grow a tree the fastest, put the most intricate detail into a 4 pillar house, etc.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

That isn't how it works.

Oh really? You're the writer of this manga disguised as a fan all this time? I'm glad you're here! There's a lot of things I have wanted to discuss with you./sarcasm

Show me the chapter that proves you right and proves me wrong and I will concede. Until then, don't make statements that you don't know to be true without stating that they are your opinion.

Originally Posted by Chidori

Unless it has to do with the material used (genetic or whatever). Like cells obtained from young Madara gives you youthful edo tensei Madara.
The real question no one can answer about edo tensei is... their clothes!!!! Why don't they reanimate with leisure suits or something?

Maybe it all has to do with how the caster of the jutsu visualizes the ninja as the jutsu is cast

[TheLastHokage]

Originally Posted by SharinganHeir

Maybe it all has to do with how the caster of the jutsu visualizes the ninja as the jutsu is cast

Brilliant .

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by SharinganHeir

1. Reaper Death Seal isn't the only sealing technique that can stop edo tensei.
2. Quit making a big deal about you constantly repeating yourself. I saw it every time and it's getting old.
3. I was making a sarcastic remark because you already mentioned sealing multiple times.
4. I am merely making the point that in a never ending 4 on 1 battle, the 4 have the advantage despite all involved being immortal.


What part was illogical? Naruto defeated the 6 paths of pain single handed. 4 ninjas who are more skilled and experienced than naruto are together. If they had to fight the 6 paths of pain, they would be able to defeat them like Naruto did. Naruto has surpassed them in power, yes, but he has a long way to go in other areas. I think any one of those 4 could still beat him (without immortality).


None of those examples are similar at all. Wood Style is a Kekkei Genkai. That means it has to be in your blood. I don't see Someone with altered DNA being as skilled as someone who was actually born with the technique. Granted Madara is immensely powerful and skillful, but purely looking at wood style alone, I don't believe he can possibly be as skilled as Hashirama. This is an opinion. You don't have to agree with it, but I haven't seen anything in the manga to disprove it. The only evidence so far is Yamato (who tilts the scale in my favor), Danzo (who tilts the scale in my favor; he had almost no control at all) and Madara (who we are currently arguing about).


You don't know that. We haven't seen them compete. There is no proof that either person could grow the tallest tree, grow the most trees, grow a tree the fastest, put the most intricate detail into a 4 pillar house, etc.


Oh really? You're the writer of this manga disguised as a fan all this time? I'm glad you're here! There's a lot of things I have wanted to discuss with you./sarcasm

Show me the chapter that proves you right and proves me wrong and I will concede. Until then, don't make statements that you don't know to be true without stating that they are your opinion.



Maybe it all has to do with how the caster of the jutsu visualizes the ninja as the jutsu is cast

1st bold: you sure about that? they already tried to seal madara with other methods. Turns out, that didn't work. What makes you think they have another method besides RDS? we have no reason to believe that.

and ok, yes, they have the "advantage", but that doesn't mean squat unless they can seal him. that is my point. it doesn't matter how many times you can hit him. (also, I honestly still wouldn't say they have the advantage, primarily because of his ultimate susano'o. as far as we know, none of them can hurt him when he's using it, and if he was really going all out, he would have it up 100% of the time.)

2nd bold: Primarily, the illogical part was saying that any of the kage, in a one on one fight, could defeat naruto without being immortal. his raw power is unrivaled by everyone but madara. Nearly every trace of the "foolish" naruto is gone. What makes you think he has "weaknesses" per se, in other areas? Again, we have no reason to believe that he could not defeat any one of the kage.

the 6 paths have nothing to do with anything. I didn't debate that. Simply the claim that the kage could beat naruto was illogical, as we have no reason to......believe it. (seewhatididthere )

3rd bold: That has absolutely no bearing on being good at it. It's all about elemental and spacial manipulation of chakra, in addition to strategic application.

As long as two people can use it, then it doesn't matter who started with it. Either one can surpass the other. We've seen madara use it. He is capable of creating entire forests, with no limits. He has unlimited mokuton. So does hashirama. Therefore, we can conclude they they would be able to match each other in forest creation. It is no different than the raikiri/chidori situation.

[Chidori]

Naruto is a child. Yes, Kurama makes him more powerful than the previous hokages, but it doesn't make him smarter or more skilled or have more experience... you know, the stuff that matters in a battle.

Also, Naruto isn't beating anyone by himself... he always gets help.

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by Chidori

Naruto is a child. Yes, Kurama makes him more powerful than the previous hokages, but it doesn't make him smarter or more skilled or have more experience... you know, the stuff that matters in a battle.

Also, Naruto isn't beating anyone by himself... he always gets help.

you're right. It doesn't make him smarter or more skilled. Yet he is, Kurama or not, he HAS gotten smarter and more skilled. He does not act like a child anymore.

The "lacking experience" argument is completely invalid. Nearly everyone that naruto has defeated has had "more experience" than he has. Even Gaara had more combat experience than naruto did, and he still won. by himself. (summons do not count as "getting help" since it is an ability that the shinobi possesses. Same goes for using puppets.) We have every reason to believe that he could easily best Sage Jiraiya in combat only using half his available power. What makes you think any one of the kage stand a better chance?

also, whether or not naruto has had help in the past is completely irrelevant when discussing potential battles, since there would be no outside interference allowed under the current context.

Honestly, if any of them have a chance, it's hashirama, since he can (maybe) shut down the 9 tailed fox's power. But even then, just with sage mode naruto is incredibly powerful. And even then, it's only IF he can stop the foxes power. Yamato was not able to control naruto after a certain point. We don't know how much of the fox's power that Hashirama can control do we? i don't remember. But any of the other kage? I seriously doubt it. Naruto is as fast or faster than the 4th hokage when he's using his signiature teleportation. That was the entire point of the dialogue saying that bee saw a "yellow flash" when naruto sprinted. It was obviously intended to draw a correlation between the two, or the wording would not have been so exact and emphasized. And that was when he had LESS power than he has now.

In summary, it's possible that hashirama might be able to take him head on, especially since he is the most powerful of the kage. But without reaper death seal (which is, at best, a draw, not a victory.) the third or fourth likely have no chance. Also, yet another reason the experience thing doesn't matter. None of them know what naruto is capable of except for the 4th who was apparently watching him because of the chakra he left with him (which still doesn't make the least bit of sense, but whatever.) They have absolutely no experience with fighting anyone like naruto.