Naruto 611

[Radical_Kazuma]

Originally Posted by MJM

I hate it when these two, among the others, come in and decide to debate Naruto through huge posts.

I agree. I like reading the discussions on the chapters..but not ones where it deals with philosophy rather then what is actually happening in the Naruto manga.

[world of pein]

Originally Posted by MJM

I hate it when these two, among the others, come in and decide to debate Naruto through huge posts.

This^. Who has time to read all of that?

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by ACTION *******

if at first you don't succeed, try again with the main character during a more climactic moment. not to mention thats simply 1 possibility, there are others. for starters sasuke could show up with that anti life equation he got from that dude who knows everything. you are being completely inflexible and narrow minded. you refuse to get past madaras power level



THEY arent banking on that idea. i dont recall ever reading anyone in the manga say "its ok guys, we got this. villains are stupid". if you recall, I'm the one who said that. not naruto. not shika. not kiba. me. they arent banking on it. they are banking on friendship and teamwork and the heart of the cards



faith, morale, and optimism go a long way. if you dont think you can win, then its impossible even if there truly is a chance,r regardless of how small. it all goes out the window if you give up in your mind. and on top of that, they have no choice but to fight. if they dont its game over. they are up against a wall. surrender isn't really an option.

not to mention the guys who just showed up, for the most part, haven't witnessed what the kage did. they didnt see him drop two meteors by twitching his nose. they didnt see him chop up a mountain by scratching his junk, and they didnt see him just utterly wreck their leaders. and they have superior numbers. ignorance + superior numbers = confidence. therefore they arent in 'pants crapping mode' just yet. and if they do get there, naruto will go into inspirational mode like he's done since forever.

1st bold: "main character's privelege" is not a valid argument. Again, that "privelege" only applies from the reader's perspective.

Additionally, if sealing doesn't work, then it doesn't work. No amount of variable can change that. I can't lift 1000 lbs. no matter how many times I try, it will never be possible. it's that type of idea. They don't technically know that he can't be sealed yet, but the point is, you brought up the idea that they could try it, my point is, it wont work without factoring in the "main character privelege".

2nd bold: Teamwork rarely beats power on a scale like that. Sure, if I team up with a friend, we can probably beat up quite a few people, when it's just us against 1 guy. but against a couple blackbelts? it wouldn't matter if I had 10 allies. It wouldn't change the odds of us winning, because a blackbelt would be that much better that it wouldn't matter. That's how I see the madara vs alliance issue (again, not factoring in b/naruto/guy/kakashi because I was referring to the rest of them)

3rd bold: that just flat out isn't true. In my own life personally I've proven that. I've won at things when I never thought I could. optimism, to a point, can make you better, but not by a lot. the whole "imagine yourself making it" in basketball doesn't work. confidence does not affect how far I can throw a ball, for example. optimism only gets you so far, but by the same token, a lack their of only offsets you by an equal amount.

Whether or not you can win isn't going to affect how hard you try. Not when it's life and death.

last bold: fair enough.

[ACTION *******]

Originally Posted by Nejifan

1st bold: "main character's privelege" is not a valid argument. Again, that "privelege" only applies from the reader's perspective.

...so? again i never said they knew about main character advantage. doesnt mean its not there to help. your response makes no sense

Originally Posted by Nejifan

Additionally, if sealing doesn't work, then it doesn't work. No amount of variable can change that. I can't lift 1000 lbs. no matter how many times I try, it will never be possible. it's that type of idea. They don't technically know that he can't be sealed yet, but the point is, you brought up the idea that they could try it, my point is, it wont work without factoring in the "main character privelege".

for the love of- get off the sealing thing, i was simply listing things that they could do that dont involve outright overpowering him. i could have said they could make him trip on a banana peel, it doesn't matter. the specifics of what i said dont matter, simply the idea that it wasn't all about power levels. i seriously doubt they intend to charge a kamehameha against their galik gun and overpower it.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

2nd bold: Teamwork rarely beats power on a scale like that. Sure, if I team up with a friend, we can probably beat up quite a few people, when it's just us against 1 guy. but against a couple blackbelts? it wouldn't matter if I had 10 allies. It wouldn't change the odds of us winning, because a blackbelt would be that much better that it wouldn't matter. That's how I see the madara vs alliance issue (again, not factoring in b/naruto/guy/kakashi because I was referring to the rest of them)

again, real life isn't this. teamwork and good feelings tend to go much further in this type of world. making a real world comparison doesn't completely work here, and no amount of you not liking it will change that.

you cant not factor them in since they ARE there. it doesnt matter if you were only referring to the rest of them because the rest of them arent fighting alone.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

3rd bold: that just flat out isn't true. In my own life personally I've proven that. I've won at things when I never thought I could. optimism, to a point, can make you better, but not by a lot. the whole "imagine yourself making it" in basketball doesn't work. confidence does not affect how far I can throw a ball, for example. optimism only gets you so far, but by the same token, a lack their of only offsets you by an equal amount.

the confidence or lack of only effects you, not the opponent. i dont know what you were doing but your bad feelings dont stop the other guy from being dumb or also being negative. it also doesnt effect random chance. so of course it isn't COMPLETELY true that you being a downer auto loses it, but it does hurt.

and of course it isn't going to effect your personal or outright human limits, but that wasn't the point either.

Originally Posted by Nejifan

Whether or not you can win isn't going to affect how hard you try. Not when it's life and death.

it being life or death makes a huge difference. tsun tzu (spelling?) disagrees with you hard.



so im done here. not only can i not stand your total inflexibility, you somehow thinking that them not knowing about main character advantage somehow makes a difference, and you bringing personal pessimism as though it effects the manga, and plain just not knowing how fiction works...this is just clearly a waste of my time

not to mention i can barely even remember what we're even arguing about anymore, now im simply responding to you. thats a sign that this has simply gone on too long. so im done. good day sir

[Nejifan]

Originally Posted by ACTION *******

...so? again i never said they knew about main character advantage. doesnt mean its not there to help. your response makes no sense



for the love of- get off the sealing thing, i was simply listing things that they could do that dont involve outright overpowering him. i could have said they could make him trip on a banana peel, it doesn't matter. the specifics of what i said dont matter, simply the idea that it wasn't all about power levels. i seriously doubt they intend to charge a kamehameha against their galik gun and overpower it.



again, real life isn't this. teamwork and good feelings tend to go much further in this type of world. making a real world comparison doesn't completely work here, and no amount of you not liking it will change that.

you cant not factor them in since they ARE there. it doesnt matter if you were only referring to the rest of them because the rest of them arent fighting alone.



the confidence or lack of only effects you, not the opponent. i dont know what you were doing but your bad feelings dont stop the other guy from being dumb or also being negative. it also doesnt effect random chance. so of course it isn't COMPLETELY true that you being a downer auto loses it, but it does hurt.

and of course it isn't going to effect your personal or outright human limits, but that wasn't the point either.



it being life or death makes a huge difference. tsun tzu (spelling?) disagrees with you hard.



so im done here. not only can i not stand your total inflexibility, you somehow thinking that them not knowing about main character advantage somehow makes a difference, and you bringing personal pessimism as though it effects the manga, and plain just not knowing how fiction works...this is just clearly a waste of my time

not to mention i can barely even remember what we're even arguing about anymore, now im simply responding to you. thats a sign that this has simply gone on too long. so im done. good day sir

How "fiction" works is not relevant. We aren't discussing the "type" of world this is, we are discussing ONLY specifically the narutoverse. The fact that this is a shounen manga is not relevant to the original point.


Secondly, being negative ONLY lowers your performance if, in that case, you decide not to try. People honestly perform better when engaged in "losing battles", because they give it 100%. that's a fact.

thirdly, I'm inflexible because you don't propose valid points. I'm still waiting for a cohesive argument that doesn't revolve around 'this is a shounen manga'. I am not entirely inflexible, or had you MISSED the part where I agreed with you at the end? If you aren't going to read the entirety of my post, then responding is pointless.