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#41
10-02-2011, 06:32 PM
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Whoa, I completely forgot about this thread! Well I'll just reply, then I'm off this forum anyway, so I won't see anyone's reply...
[quote=flan_master12;1270407]#8 He lost to Shino. You mean it was a tie, considering Shino was poisoned and needed help from his father. And that was part 1, so that means little. #7 I have actually never heard of someone saying that. I think many people know that Haku is very strong. Did you judge this "misconception" on like 2-3 people? You are right- i came across a few who said that. But yes, the majority don't think that. #6 Stop being a hypocrite. Don't just say "he would have ripped a hole in his chest" as if you knew that would have happened. That fight could have ended if different ways. Hell I had no idea why sasuke didnt just Amaterasu his whole body from the start. No need to be rude- I was ignorant of Enton, so I honestly thought A would win. I post what I wrote in another forum (ignore the stuff that doens't apply here): "First, i humbly admit my errors in my misconception series, as I have come to new knowledge and now think differently. I need to change the Minato bit- I still don't know if Minato is the most powerful Hokage, but my FEATS, Minato>Sarutobi. Yet, to the best of my knoweldge, by FEATS, Hasharima (or however you spell it) > Minato, since he took a prime Madara and Minato took a weakened one. The Minato bit thus needs to be rewritten. Also, regarding Sasuke & A: though I'm not convinced A would 'die' if the attack went thru, I now doubt that Sasuke would be killed- who knows if he would even be injured badly. At the least, A's leg would be completely messed up (don't see why he'd die though), but the probabiltiy is against A more than Sasuke. IF A got thru the spiked flames and IF he got thru susanoo's aura, then Sasuke would be injured, but the probability of him being killed is very low. But again, I don't see why A would die either. I also don't see though how Sasuke had a more complete susnaoo that he could have used if he wanted. The difference between his suanno then and the one with Mei was that the bones had grown to completely cover his front section (with Mei), where the bones weren't covering his mid section with A. Mainly my misunderstanding was due to my ignorance of Enton and the flame spikes- chapter 553 apparently explains 'Blaze release' & Enton more- based on V-man's post above. Anyway, some things to consider, in regards to Susnaoo being an all out complete protectino that is impossible to bypass. "http://www. read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-466/page007.html ^The bones are inside Susnaoo's chakra cloak. Thus gas does go through susnaoo, as it woldn't hav melted the bones if it didn't. I write this since some think the mist didn't go inside- but the bones are inside, the mist went inside and melted the bones- somehow Sasuke's face is alright. Sasuke wasn't Susnaoo-protected, he was plot protected, since the mist did go thru Susanoo and melt the bones whihc were inside the cloak and right next to his face. [url]http://www.narutopod.com/manga/Narut...479/08.jpg.php[/url] ^ A better example is Sasuk'e almost complete Susanoo, in his fight with Danzo, succumbed to Baku's wind (air/GAS) vaccuum. Not only was Susanoo pulled forward in the vaccuum, but Sasuke INSIDE an almost complete Susnaoo was pulled forward by the wind alone (susanoo wasn't pushing him). so air was going threw. YOu can even see the physical features of his FACE and body succumbing to the air/GAS, so yes, gas can go thru Susnaoo." [url]http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v50/c466/4.html[/url] ^ A fully protected Sasuke in susnaoo, due to the force of impact, was still blasted thru a wall and into another wall- he took a hit and was roughed up. The questino is, would Tsunade's heel kick (when she jumps up and slams into the groud with her heel, creating a large crater), if she was in Raikage's place, not effect sasuke at all, since powerful physical attacks can at least effect even sasuke in Susanoo? Now I don't know if A is as powerful as Tsunade (no, IMO, btw), but w/o the black flames, if only Susanoo protected Sasuke, I could definately see Sasuke taking some damage. Now what of the black flames? As pointed out by someone else, lightning and wind elements can pierce like a sword- can the black flames? In theory, obviously, yet we haven't seen a feat of it piercing anyone- lightning and wind yes, but never seen a fire element pierce someone (btw, Sasuke already developed Susnaoo with the sword when fighting the cloud nin and sand nin- he used the sword to break the pillars, so the ceiling would come crumbling down. In chapter 553, didn't he just use the same Susnaoo sword, Ammy it and use Blaze release/enton to cover teh sword or was it really an Enton sword?), so we don't know to what extent it would stop/pierce A. Also, lightning & wind 'swords' would fail to pierce A due to his lightning release armor, in theory (actully, the wind would pierce since lightning is weak against wind), as can be seen when Sasuke's lightning sword doesn't effect A at all (doesn't breach his lightning armor), despite the force of the thrust. So would fire flames eevn breach the lightning armor? Since they are Ammy (assuming they are), and the Ammy flames did burn A's hand, I assume the fire would at least ingnite A (as fire jutsu's I guess would burn him), so i guess the assumption is fire swords (spikes) would also breach his armor, and in the least, would catch him on fire. Thus, with the force of the G. drop coming down on spikes, the momentum would at least be slowed (though how much is the questino), and with susanoo's chakra cloak, it would be slowed more. Again, if this was Tsunade, would her heel drop thus effect Sasuke at all? For A, the rest of the force would come down staight on his chest. Thus, I now see an equal probability of Sasuke and A being wounded, where A's leg would be messed up (have to be amputated, and maybe cut up), and Sasuke bleeding internally even more (cause remember, A's 'Judo chop' did hit Sasuke, and though it should have killed him, Susanoo cushioned the blow, but not completely. After, Sasuke was down on the ground, on the defensive, and bleeding internally. Lol, judo chop. Sorry). Anyway, the fact that sasuke seemed to be in that position, makes it seem like he was on the defensive- I could be wrong, but I think he would be insane to use that if he did have a bigger susanoo that he could have used. Again, it seemed he manifested more of susnaoo as he became more hateful, ie.. with the intensity of his hate, mroe of susnaoo was made. It wasn't until laterr when susnaoo was basically completed, due to his matured hate (as Madara put it). Anyway, for now, I conclude that Sasuke and A would be messed up, with the higher probability of A being more messed up than Sasuke- again, if the flame spikes breach the lightning armor, and if A breaches the flames and susanoo aura. Yet I see neither of them being killed- but both wounded (A more wounded, and Sasuke less wounded, i.e. bleeding internally more)." 
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#42
10-02-2011, 06:34 PM
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#43
10-02-2011, 06:42 PM
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Lol- it's so full of trolling that the argument hasbn't been refuted by you- what trolling indeed. And my last thread? So trolling and so full of fail that not one person could refute it. If it's a troll/fail OP then it should easily be refuted [well, in the last thread, 1 person tried to refute it, but obviously didn't read the OP, since they claimed that I said the character in question had infinite chakra, when I specifically said at the end of a particular battle, he had LESS CHAKRA. I said the character had infitie stamina, i.e. never tiring physically in a fight. And he said something nowhere validated in the manga (to the best of my knowledge)- that puppeteering takes a LOT of chakra. Even more, w/puppeteering, no puppeteer has ever been shown being anywhere near chakra exhaustion- it was a Fail refutation. Oh- another person said I was 'obivously wrong' while not refuting one word of the OP]. *PsychoKarin Yes, it's been said by ONE other person- like you, he didn't refute a word of the OP. Your reply is full of fail.
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#44
10-06-2011, 05:53 PM
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haku had the most potential? bull there is two ninjas with unlimited potential : Itachi and Kimimaro itachi got his destructo disc, kimimaros gonna get his broken jutsu. and btw, haku vs kimimaro.... we all know how that would turn out
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#45
10-31-2011, 10:54 PM
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8) who cares? kank is a filler character anyways. plus he couldnt beat shino.
7) everyone knows haku is/was boss 6) that fight is impossible to predict 5) tobi=/=madara. tobi survived being blown up for ten minutes. quite the feat. im sure he can do much more. 4) duh hiruzen was the boss hokage. he knew more jutsu than almost anyone. while old and decrepit, he sealed the 1st and 2nd then crippled oro. everyone gives him props for that 3) yeah pain coulda murdered naruto at multiple points. but he didnt. so bleh. 2) oro was pretty lame. we never saw him go completely all out but he couldnt hold a candle to itachi 1) idk what 1 was
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#46
11-01-2011, 05:43 AM
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We could all agree with you and your thread would still be fail.
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#47
06-17-2012, 04:14 PM
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#48
06-18-2012, 05:31 AM
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Well I have nothing better to do at 5am and heck, I like ranting
For starters, This thread was dead even by the manga sections standards...and thats pretty **** dead. dont revive them please. but since its already an unholy demon zombie violating the very laws of nature...I'll bite I'd like to mention that I not only refuted several of your points, you completely ignored them. funny how you ignore me, and i wanna say some others as well, and claim that no one disproved any of your "misconceptions" yet conveniently don't reply to some of them... and now for stuff I didn't say before or rewording some of the things I said 8) Kankurou isn't a head on fighter. For him to fight at his best, you need to be at a disadvantage. Again, he was part of the assassin section of the army. Think of this in terms of gun users. Most shinobi we see are gunslingers able to fight an opponent right in front of them with fancy moves and tricks and quick draws. Kank is a sniper. he isnt a "take ten paces, turn and fire" type of fighter. he's a "target acquired, target eliminated" type of guy. As such, it is impossible to truly compare him and his peers with people like...well pretty much (note: pretty much, not all) everyone else with a name. I mean sure there are some he would definitely defeat, even in what is normally a disadvantageous situation for him (a "fair" fight) as well as some people he would definitely lose against unless they were completely out of battle mode. Not to mention when he was first introduced he basically (unless gaara was within 20 feet of him lol) talked down to everyone and acted like he was all that...only to never really back that up except when fighting unimportant people like kabuto's teammate. when that happens, its hard to really respect someone, regardless. 7) not much to add since even you have admitted that the general consensus is that this "misconception" isn't really a misconception because only a small handful of idiots think this. however I will say that you giving haku theoretical capabilities should have no bearing on such things. Also, peoples character traits do count for something. Haku's gentleness is a failing on his part that shouldnt be overlooked. sure if mindless killing machine in haku's body were to fight mindless killing machine in person X's body were to fight, the MKM haku would win...but then its not really haku. his gentleness is a "weakness" that was his downfall. just like kidoumaru liking to play with his food got him killed, just like how kibas nose got him beat. if one of your weaknesses is exploited...you lost, simple as that. arguing "well if this and that didnt happen, he would have totally won" is silly. the only way that would count is if the "this and that" was some sort of outside interference or pure luck. on that note i will say the naruto vs kiba example isnt really an example since naruto wasnt TRYING to ****, he was trying to SCJ. thus luck, thus there was deus ex machina (honestly, naruto, while not SMART per se, is pretty clever and surprisingly tactical for someone painted as an idiot. I could have totally seen him ****ing on purpose. making it an accident was a failing on kishimotos part). I was just trying to make a point 6) Again, outside interference, sasuke fights barely count as is due to cheating, and predicting fights in a situation like this is pretty much impossible. and again, fighting styles matter in naruto. its not so much DBZ to the point where the higher power level wins unless the higher PL is overwhelmingly more power level. and even then, not all hope is lost. Its not like A losing to sasuke would have technically made A less powerful or a lesser shinobi. It just means he fought someone suited to fighting him. 5) obv the thread is old enough to where at the time, we didnt know tobi wasnt madara (for a fact). so i wont touch the name things. so lets do this based totally on the assumption that tobi is madara like back then, and the only knowledge we have on madara is what we knew back then - madara lost to the most powerful man in that time period? oh no, clearly that is a black mark upon his record -oh no, madara in a weakened state lost to one of the most powerful men from 16 years ago? another black mark. man this madara fellow certainly isnt very good is he. theres no way he could beat pain... -what? he was almost killed by 10 minutes of constant explosion? what, is he human or something? unforgivable. - ok no sarcasm for this next one. not knowing the full capabilities of someone built up to be quite powerful, the same person who is basically the main villain of the series, who has the same kekkeigenkai we've seen to have a multitude of devastating abilities obviously gives us reason to think "man, he was have some crazy power we dont know about" and isnt remotely the same thing as not knowing oro*1, asuma*1, sai2, ebisu, mei1, or iruka* and assuming they are weak *: sir, we pretty much do know their full capabilities. they fought to the death (well oro is only sorta KINDA dead. but still) or were put in a situation that was not only life threatening, but threatening the lives of someone important to them (iruka)...we know enough to properly place their power. if they had any more hidden tricks or super powers, they deserved getting their ***** wooped instead of using them. 1: weak? these guys are weak? oro, one of the legendary sannin is weak? mei, one of the 5 kage is weak? Asuma I think is fairly clearly one of the strongest leaf jonin and definitely not weak. he's no kakashi or guy, and he certainly isnt a super saiyan like naruto. but weak? no no. oro certainly doesnt get the respect he probably deserves, sure. but i dont think people truly consider him weak. mei is a woman. kishi doesnt allow women to truly stand out even when they have the tools too. we know mei is strong, we also know she wont amount to anything. thats not the same thing as weak. Sakura for example is clearly above average...she's just not a god like her teammates, is never given a chance to shine in battle, and handles situations awful and is generally useless. hence the hate. 2: sai, while not having been in many truly life threatening situations (that we've seen.) I feel we've more or less seen his peak. he's not gonna all of a sudden go "oh and btw... I had like 20 sharingans all over my body and had the 10 tails sealed inside me with the rinnegan on my "richard". any surprises he has for us, if any (which is doubtful) arent going to drastically change his power level in our minds. at best he'll reach the good jonin like kakashi. and that, i feel, is generous. very. in fact scratch that he's definitely not there. ad nowadays it looks like if you arent at LEAST there, you are useless
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#49
06-18-2012, 05:31 AM
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4) again, multiple hokage have been said to be the strongest. though now i highly doubt any of them came remotely close to Hashirama. but thats beside the point since we didnt know that at the time of this threads creation. And nicknames...dont really mean much.
for starters, lets look at oonoki, the tsuchikage. he is very old. easily as old/older than hiruzen. he is very clearly not in his prime. yet that dude is clearly a DBZ character. he flies, lifts islans, shoots ki blasts, and doesnt afraid of anything. his destructive power seems unmatched and i can only imagine what sort of engine of destruction he was, say, 30-40 years ago. yet Hiruzen, who was FAAAAAR less impressive while NOT in his prime (and being about the same age as Oonoki, if not younger) was called the god of shinbi. what did that make oonoki? super god? god+? chuck norris? no, no clearly hiruzen got that title for similar, if not the same, reason he got "professor". because of his technique, skill, prowess, overall ability. basically he was the full package. clearly his destructive force was matched, and surpassed. so unless there is something crazy we didnt know about hiruzen (possible but pretty unlikely), his nickname really isnt an argument. and the same goes for that he said she said crap. like i said, more than one hokage is allegedly the strongest. heck not even when compared to other hokage, but apaprently everyone all over the ninja world has varying opinions of who is stronger than who. so no, a character saying something isnt the same as kishi telling us something. honestly there is no real right answer here unless there are guidelines and standards made. 1 hokage was seemingly unstoppable (hashirama. to be able to fight against a guy like madara...). another hokage was basically the ultimate technique master, super versatile. another hokage can potentially take out every enemy on the battlefield int he blink of an eye. another one is unarguably (apparently from what we've seen recently) physically the 1st or 2ndstrongest ninja in the world and she essentially cant die from battle wounds unless the hit kills instantly. i think only poor second hokage is ineligible simply because he was in his prime the same time as hashirama...yet hashirama was clearly called the strongest guy around. and he's not even second place since madara existed. he was the 3rd strongest guy in the world at his time at best and the second strongest hokage ever at best. unless he got uber powerful after hashirama died. 3) it helps, but there doesnt always need to be a death. te first time we ever saw a taled naruto, nobody was dead or almost dead or seemingly dead...naruto was just losing and the fox was all "**** it kid, cant i take a nap for once *gives naruto more chakra than we had ever seen him give him before, even more than when naruto thought his best friend had died. more than when his love interest was in danger.*". imo the hinata stuff was more fanservice (no, not THAT kind of fan service) than anything else. if he wanted, ksihi could have had naruto go fox because he was losing and the fox kinda doesnt want to get sealed up again and abused by akatsuki. the fox, like akamaru, is a ninja tool. one that puts akamaru to shame, but still. him being alive and a separatre entity doesnt deflate the fact that naruto is a jinchuuriki and the fox is his major source of power. saying "oh well pain would have wonw ith no fox" is like saying naruto would have won easily if pain didnt have rinnegan. fact of the matter is, pain wasnt able to do jack squat against the fox. the only legitimate excuse is pain not fighting to kill...but naruto easily defeated the only really insta kill pain had (soul stealing path). any other attempt to kill him like wouldhave resulted in kurama going "lawlz no". is that cheap as hell? yes. not saying it isnt. the fox is basically "main characters privilege" given a living breathing talking form. CAN pain win. sure i think its very possible. i just dont think its as cut and dry and you make it sound. and i want meaning to sound as much in naruto's favor as i did. I'm just trying to express the point that naruto wasnt in quite as much danger as you, and others, seem to think. basically, it wasnt hinata intervention that saved him. it was fox intervention. i'm not even counting hinata as interference because she didnt harm pain int he lightest. 2) why do you keep assuming people think orchimaru is weak just because he cant beat person X. he is very strong. itachi is just bad match for him. with literally just a look. a simple meeting of the eye...itachi wins. most people would. and even if people are calling him weak...guess what, theres a far bigger argument for itachi being able to woop orochimaru than there is orochimaru even being able to make itachi sweat. and that evidence is an encounter between the two where itachi effortlessly defeat orochimaru and cut an arm off. where as the best pro orochimaru argument you can come up with is...what, he wasnt prepared? that anyone would have lost against itachi right there?that jiraiya would also be fodder? sorry, that sound a lot more like a pro itachi argument than a pro orochimaru argument. And i realize that its not what you meant and that the thread is to old for you to have known at the time, but i cant resist. "how would itachi beat edo tensei?" simple...by attack its source and trapping it in a time paradox in his head and forcing him to release the jutsu. like a boss  .im also not sure the yata mirror is the kind of mirror you are thinking of as i see no reason why it cant face multiple directions. also, its fairly basic combat knowledge to not let your opponent surround you if you can help it. not to mention susanoo clearly has strong defensive capabilities even without the mirror. so even surrounded...K? and seriously? "if multiple kage are fighting itachi..." well ****, if it takes multiple kage to fight itachi successfully i REALLY dont see why its so bad for orochimaru to lose alone seriously, what is up with you acting like a loss for character X is unforgivable and is a permanent black mark upon someone. orochimaru conquered a country? since when. because I hear going to a lord and saying "you know what you should do? let me start a hidden village here" is really conquering it. it sound more like joining or assimilating yourself into it. even helping it. I wouldnt call him the weakest either. for starters we never really got to see what konan can do...unless she can just do that whole 10 minute explosion thing at will. if so...she's actually pretty high on the list in my mind. if not then yeah we know little of her capabilities. and since she's a female..im assuming oro is stronger. then theres hidan. all that guy has is immortality. and he needs your blood to really fight you effectively. I'd say orochimaru is stronger than this guy. everyone else (not counting hawk or kabuto) is either strong enough i think to at least make him work for it assuming he wins, or would just destroy him outright. so yeah, not the weakest...but pretty dang far from the strongest as well.
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