Naruto CCG's secondary market

[Amaterasu_]

I agree this 100%. It would be also important to promo game in other countries. Like here in Finland basically no one knows this game. World of Warcraft ccg is widely played and Vampire is also. I don't know how they do in USA (more or less popular than Naruto).

[Bum-Steer]

Originally Posted by Mortal_Sword

Secondary market cannot develop because there is no demand.

1. Lack of players - I don't think Bandai is putting enough effort behind this game. It takes alot of work to make a smash hit CCG that can compete. This is a strong intellectual property, but it isn't being capitalized on.

2. Lack of formats - Block is really the only widely supported format, and by widely I mean hardly. Magic is successful because it has multiple relevant formats, both competitive and casual, and the good cards maintain value, often even when reprinted. Eternal formats (non-rotating) bolster the values of good cards, and even create a secondary market for the really good commons and uncommons, especially one that haven't been reprinted.

3. Lack of limited - Let's face it, I'm not sure there are many Draft/Sealed events firing. There could be a few exceptions, but it is doubtful. Limited formats sell packs, especially among casual players who want a taste of competitive play but might not be willing to break the bank to achieve it.

4. Poor web presence - This site's features are awful (sorry guys!). Trying to sort through the older sets, or search for cards you are not familiar with is tedious and bothersome. The site doesn't seem to have a constant update focus. The forums are cluttered and the information is hard to find. When I tried to figure out the rotation schedule, I found three different posts from Tylar with different information. Why is the outdated info still sticky'd?

5. Poor secondary coverage and culture - No offense folks, but you aren't very inviting. This forum is a perfect example, people are regularly trolled and ridiculed. This might be due to the average age of players (games like Magic tend to have older demographics). Many of you aren't very forthcoming with help, I had one question thread get twenty reads before I got a single reply. I can't believe that all twenty of those views were by folks without the knowledge to help out. No one is hosting a highly visible source of information, no one is writing constructive articles on any relevant topics (deckbuilding, etc). ******* is a wasteland of terrible videos made by teenagers and people who have quit the game (a weird trend btw). Magic thrives off a large community of advanced players who generate content for the masses, articles, videos, tournament reports, set reviews. The list goes on. These things generate support for a game, generate interest and boost sales.

6. Design is too redundant - There are dozens of different versions of the main characters. Most of them are pretty bad, and some are insanely good. You can only bring three of each character, and that severely limits the playability of many of the cards. How many times can you print Kisame as a Super Rare?

7. Design seems too amateur - Many of the synergistic combos are degenerate, and not enough viable answers to deal with them. I see alot of calling out for Mission hate for example, and it seems relevant.

Just my thoughts. I'm new to Naruto, but a longtime Magic player with my ear to ground on that secondary market. Naruto will be a subpar game until some major changes are made.

i agree. 100%.

[Tsu Kiyo Me]

Originally Posted by Mortal_Sword

Secondary market cannot develop because there is no demand.

1. Lack of players - I don't think Bandai is putting enough effort behind this game. It takes alot of work to make a smash hit CCG that can compete. This is a strong intellectual property, but it isn't being capitalized on.

Blame that on Marketing I guess. I would say so far Tylar is doing a good job changing the format in the right direction.

2. Lack of formats - Block is really the only widely supported format, and by widely I mean hardly. Magic is successful because it has multiple relevant formats, both competitive and casual, and the good cards maintain value, often even when reprinted. Eternal formats (non-rotating) bolster the values of good cards, and even create a secondary market for the really good commons and uncommons, especially one that haven't been reprinted.

This is a legitimate complaint. I agree there needs to be a limited format. But if even the primary format has no prize support...other formats are hard to get off the ground.

3. Lack of limited - Let's face it, I'm not sure there are many Draft/Sealed events firing. There could be a few exceptions, but it is doubtful. Limited formats sell packs, especially among casual players who want a taste of competitive play but might not be willing to break the bank to achieve it.

Tournament Packs are actually pretty good for limited in my experience with them. Too bad they're too far and few between.

4. Poor web presence - This site's features are awful (sorry guys!). Trying to sort through the older sets, or search for cards you are not familiar with is tedious and bothersome. The site doesn't seem to have a constant update focus. The forums are cluttered and the information is hard to find. When I tried to figure out the rotation schedule, I found three different posts from Tylar with different information. Why is the outdated info still sticky'd?

Blame Alex. He's in charge of web content and the site's features.

5. Poor secondary coverage and culture - No offense folks, but you aren't very inviting. This forum is a perfect example, people are regularly trolled and ridiculed. This might be due to the average age of players (games like Magic tend to have older demographics). Many of you aren't very forthcoming with help, I had one question thread get twenty reads before I got a single reply. I can't believe that all twenty of those views were by folks without the knowledge to help out. No one is hosting a highly visible source of information, no one is writing constructive articles on any relevant topics (deckbuilding, etc). ******* is a wasteland of terrible videos made by teenagers and people who have quit the game (a weird trend btw). Magic thrives off a large community of advanced players who generate content for the masses, articles, videos, tournament reports, set reviews. The list goes on. These things generate support for a game, generate interest and boost sales.

Been saying this for a while now. Community sucks so your game is going to suck. If YGO has a better community then your game, you're in trouble. Shape up or shut up people.

As for coverage, I just made a thread asking for advice on how to make coverage for events better. It goes unnoticed. Thanks guys.

6. Design is too redundant - There are dozens of different versions of the main characters. Most of them are pretty bad, and some are insanely good. You can only bring three of each character, and that severely limits the playability of many of the cards. How many times can you print Kisame as a Super Rare?

I think that's actually being fixed. Shino just got an SR in Set 23 for the first time ever. We're supposed to get a Hinata in Set 24. Wealth is being passed around. Sadly, character choices are restricted by artwork. It's not like Magic or YGO where they can just make up anything. Pokemon must surely have the same problem.

7. Design seems too amateur - Many of the synergistic combos are degenerate, and not enough viable answers to deal with them. I see alot of calling out for Mission hate for example, and it seems relevant.

Just my thoughts. I'm new to Naruto, but a longtime Magic player with my ear to ground on that secondary market. Naruto will be a subpar game until some major changes are made.

I think what ends up happening is just some poor planing in sets. We need mission hate but by the time we get to it, the problems are rotating or banned. I think what there needs to be is more "all inclusive" sets where the set has a lot of promising things in it that have synergy but within that same set relies the answers (but sometimes not all of them).

[yodaz]

Originally Posted by Tsu Kiyo Me

I think that's actually being fixed. Shino just got an SR in Set 23 for the first time ever. We're supposed to get a Hinata in Set 24. Wealth is being passed around. Sadly, character choices are restricted by artwork. It's not like Magic or YGO where they can just make up anything. Pokemon must surely have the same problem.

Can you count how many pokemon there are between all of the pokemon games/shows/movies? I remember back in the day where the original had 150...I think thats more unique pokemon than ninja's in naruto right there.

[Topside]

Originally Posted by Mortal_Sword

Secondary market cannot develop because there is no demand.

1. Lack of players - I don't think Bandai is putting enough effort behind this game. It takes alot of work to make a smash hit CCG that can compete. This is a strong intellectual property, but it isn't being capitalized on.

2. Lack of formats - Block is really the only widely supported format, and by widely I mean hardly. Magic is successful because it has multiple relevant formats, both competitive and casual, and the good cards maintain value, often even when reprinted. Eternal formats (non-rotating) bolster the values of good cards, and even create a secondary market for the really good commons and uncommons, especially one that haven't been reprinted.

3. Lack of limited - Let's face it, I'm not sure there are many Draft/Sealed events firing. There could be a few exceptions, but it is doubtful. Limited formats sell packs, especially among casual players who want a taste of competitive play but might not be willing to break the bank to achieve it.

4. Poor web presence - This site's features are awful (sorry guys!). Trying to sort through the older sets, or search for cards you are not familiar with is tedious and bothersome. The site doesn't seem to have a constant update focus. The forums are cluttered and the information is hard to find. When I tried to figure out the rotation schedule, I found three different posts from Tylar with different information. Why is the outdated info still sticky'd?

5. Poor secondary coverage and culture - No offense folks, but you aren't very inviting. This forum is a perfect example, people are regularly trolled and ridiculed. This might be due to the average age of players (games like Magic tend to have older demographics). Many of you aren't very forthcoming with help, I had one question thread get twenty reads before I got a single reply. I can't believe that all twenty of those views were by folks without the knowledge to help out. No one is hosting a highly visible source of information, no one is writing constructive articles on any relevant topics (deckbuilding, etc). ******* is a wasteland of terrible videos made by teenagers and people who have quit the game (a weird trend btw). Magic thrives off a large community of advanced players who generate content for the masses, articles, videos, tournament reports, set reviews. The list goes on. These things generate support for a game, generate interest and boost sales.

6. Design is too redundant - There are dozens of different versions of the main characters. Most of them are pretty bad, and some are insanely good. You can only bring three of each character, and that severely limits the playability of many of the cards. How many times can you print Kisame as a Super Rare?

7. Design seems too amateur - Many of the synergistic combos are degenerate, and not enough viable answers to deal with them. I see alot of calling out for Mission hate for example, and it seems relevant.

Just my thoughts. I'm new to Naruto, but a longtime Magic player with my ear to ground on that secondary market. Naruto will be a subpar game until some major changes are made.

This guy, he knows...

Honestly, this might be a chicken-and-egg sort of dilemma, but we need more players and better support for the game. Bandai could certainly learn a lot from WotC about how to market your game. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Bandai needs to quit wasting resources on junk that never sells (Power Rangers action figures!) and put it into their properties that have both mass appeal and potential for growth in their market share. It's like playing the market, on a small scale - you put your money where it will make more money. The rate Bandai's going, I'm surprised they stay afloat half the time. And I can say that, because I know the bigwigs are never gonna read this (though Tylar, our long-suffering corporate lackey, might).

Tylar is easily the most over-worked, under-appreciated person involved with this game, let alone involved with Bandai. This cat works his tail off, trying to almost single-handedly develop a game we will put down our hard-earned money for, and the most he gets in return are a bunch of trolls flinging poo at him from the boards here. I don't think anyone in the gaming industry works harder or endures more crud, save perhaps some poor soul in Bungie's R&D department (and those guys are usually temps anyway). The least we can do for this guy is stop trolling each other, and from time to time, extend a heartfelt thank-you.

All that said, this game is poorly run, not for lack of effort but lack of resources. If it had more popular support from its target audience, maybe that would be enough to get the bigwigs' attention, and they'd put a little more effort into the game. The moral here - buy packs. That's right, buy them packs. Vote with your dollars. The CEOs pay attention to retail sales before anything else. We get them there, we can steer this game any way we want.

[spiritomb]

You should write articles. I would read them. especially if they're as good as this 1. MORTAL SWORD

[Mortal_Sword]

Originally Posted by spiritomb

You should write articles. I would read them. especially if they're as good as this 1. MORTAL SWORD

Appreciate the support!

I am an extremely new player to Naruto. I live less than a block from a store on the list, but we're not actually firing any tournaments. We haven't found a way to get folks into the game in the area (other than a select few players). So I'm certainly no expert on decklists or strategy right now, hope that changes with time.

I have been playing Magic for years, and I have spent a great deal of time soaking up content related to that game (design, development, secondary market, deckbuilding, limited formats, etc).

Magic just posted it's most popular year ever, and that is despite some major PR blunders. One of the key successes this past year was to embrace a casual format created by judges and players, bring it into the fold, develop the format in a healthy way, and create a smash hit summer product to support it (Commander/EDH). Part of the success of the format is it is Eternal (non-rotating, all sets), relatively small Banlist (considering the age of the game and the sheer quantity of cards in the cardpool), and Singleton (Limit one of each card, except basic lands). The five preconstructed decks released in the summer were hugely popular, feature unique cards that were only available in those decks (not legal in Block, but legal in Eternal formats), high profile staple reprints, and were ready to play right out of the box.

My opinion is that Naruto needs a format that supports the history of the game. It is a relatively young game, and the card pool isn't nearly as deep as other CCGs. Now is the perfect time to really support Unlimited or some similar format, preferably one that is casual friendly.

Right now once cards rotate out of Block, they go the epic wastelands of cardboxes/binders stuffed in corners or closets. The handful of secondary sites that carry Naruto product are sitting on massive quantities of unwanted cards and product. I just bought two booster boxes of TP2 from a major online retailer for $20 each. That simply doesn't happen in Magic. Every set has cards that are relevant in the large formats that keep prices up. In fact, after a few years many sets go up in value.

Naruto NEEDS this to happen, or customer support will dwindle. People are only willing to buy boxes and packs for so long if they lose value quickly.


This is my view from the outside walking in, as a new player with longterm experience with the King of the Hill so to speak. I'll do my best to do my part. I'm going to try to drum up support in the next few weeks locally. I'll be browsing these forums more and more to soak up information. In time I hope to be a positively contributing member of the community. This game needs more ambassadors, because it is a great IP, with a good game system that just needs some TLC to thrive. Props to the Dev Team for how much work they put in with seemingly very little resource/support. Not trying to bash on Bandai here.

[Bum-Steer]

Originally Posted by Mortal_Sword

Appreciate the support!

I am an extremely new player to Naruto. I live less than a block from a store on the list, but we're not actually firing any tournaments. We haven't found a way to get folks into the game in the area (other than a select few players). So I'm certainly no expert on decklists or strategy right now, hope that changes with time.

I have been playing Magic for years, and I have spent a great deal of time soaking up content related to that game (design, development, secondary market, deckbuilding, limited formats, etc).

Magic just posted it's most popular year ever, and that is despite some major PR blunders. One of the key successes this past year was to embrace a casual format created by judges and players, bring it into the fold, develop the format in a healthy way, and create a smash hit summer product to support it (Commander/EDH). Part of the success of the format is it is Eternal (non-rotating, all sets), relatively small Banlist (considering the age of the game and the sheer quantity of cards in the cardpool), and Singleton (Limit one of each card, except basic lands). The five preconstructed decks released in the summer were hugely popular, feature unique cards that were only available in those decks (not legal in Block, but legal in Eternal formats), high profile staple reprints, and were ready to play right out of the box.

My opinion is that Naruto needs a format that supports the history of the game. It is a relatively young game, and the card pool isn't nearly as deep as other CCGs. Now is the perfect time to really support Unlimited or some similar format, preferably one that is casual friendly.

Right now once cards rotate out of Block, they go the epic wastelands of cardboxes/binders stuffed in corners or closets. The handful of secondary sites that carry Naruto product are sitting on massive quantities of unwanted cards and product. I just bought two booster boxes of TP2 from a major online retailer for $20 each. That simply doesn't happen in Magic. Every set has cards that are relevant in the large formats that keep prices up. In fact, after a few years many sets go up in value.

Naruto NEEDS this to happen, or customer support will dwindle. People are only willing to buy boxes and packs for so long if they lose value quickly.


This is my view from the outside walking in, as a new player with longterm experience with the King of the Hill so to speak. I'll do my best to do my part. I'm going to try to drum up support in the next few weeks locally. I'll be browsing these forums more and more to soak up information. In time I hope to be a positively contributing member of the community. This game needs more ambassadors, because it is a great IP, with a good game system that just needs some TLC to thrive. Props to the Dev Team for how much work they put in with seemingly very little resource/support. Not trying to bash on Bandai here.

I agree 100%

p.s. Brian Kibler all the way!