Quote:
Originally Posted by Shino'sDad
If you Only control another Fire Ninja, you still remove a coin if possible, and place a -1/-1 coin.
If you Only control another Lightning Ninja, you would still negate the effect of that Permanent Mission.
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I oddly find myself in agreement with Spiritomb. I believed Kiba worked the same way. As Shino'sDad has pointed out, the Negation part of Kiba is not dependent on the success or applicability of his first effect of removing a coin and placing a -1/-1 coin. As a result, I used what I would consider to be sound logic to determine if Kiba worked:
1. A Mission Card, regardless if it is Counter, Permanent, or "Normal," is considered to be a Mission when it is on the Chain.
2. A Mission Card isn't a Permanent Mission because it has coins on it and/or lasts a specific amount of turns. It is a Permanent Mission because it is aptly labeled as so. It IS a Permanent Mission on the Chain just as much as New Orders is a Counter Mission on the Chain. A Quiet Day does not need to resolve to be a Permanent Mission - IT IS a Permanent Mission.
3. Finally, I originally argued that Gameru N-1515 should function like Hina where it was pointed out to me by Laughing_Man that Gameru states "in-play" and therefore fails to target and negate Counter Missions like Hina did because Permanent Missions are only ever in-play after they've resolved. But Kiba does NOT require the Permanent Mission be "in-play."
In fact, it is worded just like Hina. Given the precedent set with Hina and the ruling I received, Kiba is worded in a manner that would allow him to Negate a Permanent Mission not yet considered "in-play" as long as it meets the requirement of being a Permanent Mission.
Here is the link to my Gameru debate with Laughing_Man and his very thorough answers. I think Spiritomb is right in this situation.
[url]http://www.bandai.com/naruto/showthread.php?t=97087[/url]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shino'sDad
He wants to be able to target A Quiet Day while it is On the Chain, before it is put in play and a coin is placed on it. Since Kiba doesn't actually care about removing the coin or not, what we're focusing on is If he can still negate the effect text of a Permanent Mission while it is on the chain. To this I would say no, and that you would not even be able to target it unless it is actually in play.
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Given your experience with the game and Hina of the previous Block, you know full well a Mission Card on the Chain is still a Mission. There is a very significant difference between when an effect states "in-play" (Gameru) versus just a card type (Hina/Kiba). Without the "in-play" prerequisite on Kiba, your point here is mute. If your intent is to say "well Kiba says 'Negate that Mission's effect text during this turn" and therefore it fails because the card doesn't have effect text, that simply is not true. The card DOES have an effect text written on that is the intended consequence of a successful resolution of that Mission. But Kiba is preventing the Mission or Mission Card from being played, it is simply setting up a condition that the Targeted Permanent Mission will come into play with a Negated text; this is no different a Timing issue than that time your Put-in-Play Ninja Effect Text was Negated by A Quiet Day during deployment. The Ninja(s) played on the Chain is still a Ninja and therefore targetable by AQD, yet when the resolution of that Chain concludes, the Ninja enters play without an Effect Text for that turn. Kiba literally is written to function the same way. IT IF IS NOT Intended to function in this manner, the card needs a simple errata to add "in-play" to its effect requirements and then it would be impossible for Kiba to Target the Not-in-play AQD on the Chain.